What length jib sheets for 23' boat?

MissFitz

MissFitz

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Couldn't find one of the jib sheets on my new Sonata so need to get a replacement for the delivery. Didn't get a chance to measure the other one though - any ideas on roughly how long they'd need to be for a 23' boat? (A generous friend has lots of spare line so cost not an issue, can err on the side of caution.)
 
MissFitz said:
Couldn't find one of the jib sheets on my new Sonata so need to get a replacement for the delivery. Didn't get a chance to measure the other one though - any ideas on roughly how long they'd need to be for a 23' boat? (A generous friend has lots of spare line so cost not an issue, can err on the side of caution.)
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Looking at a picture of a Sonata sailing I'd say a boat length will probably be about right .. 1½ times more than adequate.

Why not look at a few pictures yourself and make your own judgement.

2004Strangford2.jpg
 
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MissFitz said:
Couldn't find one of the jib sheets on my new Sonata so need to get a replacement for the delivery. Didn't get a chance to measure the other one though - any ideas on roughly how long they'd need to be for a 23' boat? (A generous friend has lots of spare line so cost not an issue, can err on the side of caution.)
Click to expand...

If you only lost one of the jib sheets, just measure the one you didn't lose
 
Thanks guys, very helpful. I'm sure one boat length would be enough but I'm also pretty sure that the existing jib sheet (which is 234 miles away, so I can't measure it) is more than 7m. So will err on the side of caution & go for 1.5 times boat length on this occasion. Can always lop a bit off if too long but would be very tiresome if too short.
 
As the nice picture shows, there is a fair bit of genoa overlap and it's normal to sheet to the windward winch.
So, to get a turn on the new sheet before tacking, it needs to be on the long side compared with some boats.
OTOH, the turning blocks are well forwards, and there is no baby stay. ISTR leaving the pole end in the anchor locker, so the sheet ran forwards over the pole? I expect a racing Sonata would be less crude than this? As the picture shows, pole along the boom dinghy-style?
A lot of variables from one 23ft boat to the next, so an actual Sonata racer would be more use!
 
lw395 said:
As the nice picture shows, there is a fair bit of genoa overlap and it's normal to sheet to the windward winch.
So, to get a turn on the new sheet before tacking, it needs to be on the long side compared with some boats.
OTOH, the turning blocks are well forwards, and there is no baby stay. ISTR leaving the pole end in the anchor locker, so the sheet ran forwards over the pole? I expect a racing Sonata would be less crude than this? As the picture shows, pole along the boom dinghy-style?
A lot of variables from one 23ft boat to the next, so an actual Sonata racer would be more use!
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Just on the subject of spin pole stowage as seen in the excellent picture. I tried stowing the pole along the boom for a long time but then found that it was much better stowing it vertically up the mast. I fitted a ssteel loop (snotter they are called here) on to the side/front of the mast near the base and plastic pole clips up the mast. So topping lift stays attached so you can't lose the pole overboard and easily grabbed and stowed by deck hand.
Re jib sheet length worse case I think is jib sheeted on hard in aft jib sheet car position the lazy sheet needs to run from jib clew forward around the mast back to jib sheet car then have enough spare length to be loaded onto winch ready for next tack. So yes about 1 boat length or perhaps a bit more. olewill
 
Just bought 20 meters of rope for my Genoa sheets on my 22.25 ft (6.7Meter) boat. Wrapped a turn or 3 around furled sail and lead rope back to cockpit, where I estimated it would be 9 meters. I'll leave the other meter on for good luck (not worth cutting it off really).

Geoff
 
I love the advice from people who have never sailed Sonatas on the best way to rig various things. The photo put up earlier is actually a really good illustration of one of current, state of the art examples of the most popular little keelboat racing one-design there has been in this country which has benefited from 50 years of intense competition. Some things (like the stand up blocks on the genoa cars) are done because of class rules (there is a measurement limited on how far back the tracks can come), others (no traveller, no pole downhaul, etc) because keeping it simple is fast. In the eighties, in common with boats like the J24, everything became adjustable, including genoa cunninghams etc, but since then the maxim has been "If you want to go fast - get rid of most of the go-fast knick knacks".

The pole is one the boom because there is no faster way to rig it.

The genoa sheets are only cross winched for the very last few inches when the boat is up to speed after a tack and is looking to point higher. All the rest of the genoa sheets are brought in by the cockpit guy through the Harken 150 on the edge of the coaming. Look at the size of him - does it look if he needs the help of a Lewmar 8? So the sheets only need to be long enough to be in the cockpit guy's hand at the start of the tack. (Incidently no racing Sonata has ever used a poled out genoa - you carry the kite up to 30 knots and then go home).

Sonatas are not easy the sail; their rig is unique and there's no book or transferable knowledge that is applicable. But the class is very open about sharing their knowledge and when you 'get it', they are still a fantastic way to become a better sailor. A 'top boat' is ridiculously cheap (four people could share a top boat for much less than each of them could buy a competitive Laser) but it's brutally honest; if you don't do well in a Sonata you're a crap sailor as you can't buy your way to the front of the fleet. Not everyone likes that.
 
Motor_Sailor said:
... if you don't do well in a Sonata you're a crap sailor as you can't buy your way to the front of the fleet. Not everyone likes that.
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Luckily I'm quite happy being a crap sailor - well, for the moment, anyway. I also suspect that I may have more need for cross-winching, being about half the size of the chap in question. But thanks again, Motor_Sailor, lots more great Sonata stuff, really helpful.
 
On Steve Goacher's website there is a good article about setting up and tuning a Sonata. He knows a bit about them?
A quick phone call to him and I am sure he would give advice on sheet lengths as well.
 
PeteCooper said:
On Steve Goacher's website there is a good article about setting up and tuning a Sonata. He knows a bit about them��
Click to expand...

The article is mirrored on the class website along with lots of other tips.

Luckily I'm quite happy being a crap sailor - well, for the moment, anyway.
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I wasn't passing any judgement on your sailing! But be prepared for some 'reality checks' when you start racing it. My first Nationals were sobering - I thought I could sail and had lots of trophies from decades of handicapped club racing. But don't get too happy where you are in the fleet - all you need to improve is an open inquiring mind, the confidence to ask the right question of the right people and lots and lots of practice.

And it's practice that will get the genoa in smartly rather than brute strength or cross winching. It's the coordination between the helm and cockpit person that pays dividend. Not even Atlas could handle the sheets if the headsail hangs up on the way round or the helmsperson can't tack accurately. But with practice and skill (and the Harken 150s in the right place and angle), human sized cockpit people do really well. Actually that guy in the picture should be sailing in the middle position and certainly by that point in the tack should have his weight on the rail.

Having 'clean' genoa sheets is really important. Mine were one piece with a length of thin piece of spectra sewn into the mid point to actually knot to the clew. Nothing to hang up on the way round.

Hope you have as much fun with your Sonata as I did.
 
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