What is your cruising range (insurance)?

[snowleopard]

On checking mine, this is the response I received...

Crusing Range: Inland and Coastal Waterways of the United Kingdom extended to include continental waters Elbe to La Rochelle

The extension from Brest to La Rochelle was at my previous request but my concern is that, as has been discussed at length in the Lounge, "United Kingdom" only covers Northern Ireland, not the Republic so I appear not to be covered if I cross the Irish Sea. I'm currently awaiting clarification of this but what does your policy say, and indeed do you actually have it in writing? - I don't.

 

[jordanbasset]

On checking mine, this is the response I received...



The extension from Brest to La Rochelle was at my previous request but my concern is that, as has been discussed at length in the Lounge, "United Kingdom" only covers Northern Ireland, not the Republic so I appear not to be covered if I cross the Irish Sea. I'm currently awaiting clarification of this but what does your policy say, and indeed do you actually have it in writing? - I don't.

Certainly worthwhile checking but hopefully insurance companies will extend for little or no cost if not already covered. Just got my GJW policy extended to cover to 21 degrees east as looking at getting to the Ionian this year, no extra charge.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I have a standard contract from Pants - no extensions requested although I understand that's not a problem. Wording is:

"European rivers and inland waters. European coastal waters up to 200nm off the coast, excluding waters south of La Rochelle and north of Bergen"

 

[Seajet]

I think Brest to the Elbe is the standard South Coast / cross Channel area for insurance, presumably with different areas for thse based on the East and West coasts, ?

Talking of insurance, I'm reminded I must talk to mine as my boat is launching early in mid-March this year, some insurers automatically think April - September unless told otherwise, something to bear in mind.

 

[Robin]

No boat currently but our Pants Policy on the last one covered down to Gibralter as standard, so greater than the usual Brest to Elbe limits. Previous boat insured through Westerly Owners (forget the company) was Brest to Elbe but I extended it every year to cover as far as Gibralter and they eventually made that extension an automatic (and free) inclusion for me unasked, although I think it might have said not after 31st October or before ... I think the Pants Policy also mentioned the Republic of Ireland too but I don't have it readily to hand to check. Pantaneous seem more flexible or understanding but they are generally more expensive and perhaps don't cover smaller boats?

 

[snowleopard]

Pantaneous seem more flexible or understanding but they are generally more expensive and perhaps don't cover smaller boats?

Last time I asked Pantenius for a quote, as soon as I said 'Cat' they said no.

 

[Angele]

My last one (Admiral) specifically covered Ireland:

Inland and coastal waters of the United Kingdom, Eire, including the continent of Europe from Brest to the River Elbe.

I haven't got the certificate for the current one to hand (it is on the boat), but my proposal form requested the same coverage.

 

[awol]

I have a standard contract from Pants - no extensions requested although I understand that's not a problem. Wording is:

"European rivers and inland waters. European coastal waters up to 200nm off the coast, excluding waters south of La Rochelle and north of Bergen"

The "north of Bergen" rules out the Shetlands so I asked and mine now includes Shetlands and south to Gibraltar - I have grandiose plans every year - and as Ken says, with no problems at all.

When I was "comparingthemarket" last year and got the "UK + Elbe to Brest" response, it seemed as if no-one had ever asked about Eire and Scandinavia before. I don't suppose the Isle of Man is covered by those policies either.

 

[macd]

"United Kingdom" only covers Northern Ireland, not the Republic so I appear not to be covered if I cross the Irish Sea.

The wording on my policy for 'coastal waters of the United Kingdom' is similar. Not much use to me since apart from Eire it also excludes the Isle of Man where I live. However the 'Continental waters Brest to Elbe' area certainly includes both. I've checked.

The obvious answer is of course to ask the insurer, which in turn begs the question of how responsive they are. As it happens I had a query about cover the other day. I E-mailed Sarah at Bishop Skinner at 09.59. Her reply, which answered my query precisely, came back 21 minutes later. Credit due.

 

[snowleopard]

the 'Continental waters Brest to Elbe' area certainly includes both. I've checked.

An insurer who wanted to wriggle out of paying would have no trouble getting a court to accept that islands aren't part of a continent. For that reason I'm going to make sure I have a written statement of what is covered.

I wonder what the legal definition of 'coastal waters' is. I would have expected that to be up to 12M offshore so could insurers claim a mishap in mid-channel is uninsured?

I am cynical because I once had a boat insured with a 'no claims paid under any circumstances' outfit.

 

[Juggler7823]

Insurance

I am sure that "British Isles" includes Eire. I have confirmed this with the 3 companies I have dealt with

 

[awol]

From the Bishop Skinner site - http://www.bishopskinner.com/Portals/0/Stay_Afloat_wording_Nov_2004.pdf -

Cruising limits
Non-tidal waters of the United Kingdom
Inland waters where there are no tides, including the Broads and Fens. You can also travel along inland tidal stretches provided it is only to enter or leave the non-tidal system.
Coastal waters of the United Kingdom
Waters around the coast up to a distance of 12 miles offshore. (The Isle of Man and Channel Islands are not part of the United Kingdom.) You can travel between two points in the United Kingdom by the most direct route even though this might take You outside the 12 mile limit. It does not include travelling between the United Kingdom and the Isle of Man, or Northern Ireland or the Channel Islands.
Continental waters between Brest and Elbe
All tidal, coastal and inland waters between Brest and Elbe. You are not allowed to sail:
• further north than 61 degrees north;
• further east than 10 degrees east;
• further south than 48 degrees 10 minutes north; and
• further west than 12 degrees west.

You can travel outside Your cruising limits if You are forced to by:
• the weather;
• any form of danger; and
• an order of a Government or legal authority.

Why can't they just use the 61N; 10E; 48:10'N; 12W box and ignore what could be weasel words?

 

[Neil_Y]

Pantaneous seem more flexible or understanding but they are generally more expensive and perhaps don't cover smaller boats?

Regarding wording and areas, I was caught out a few years back.
Had Insurance for UK to Canaries, paid an increased premium to cruise the Caribbean, I was till paying the increased premium when I informed the insurer I had had a safe passage back and had arrived in the Azores without suffering any damage (I thought wrongly that this was arriving in Europe) I assumed premium taken by DD would drop to European insurance level, it didn't.

So I was still paying Caribbean rates when cruising the Spanish coast on my way back, there was an incident, I contacted the insurers to see if I was covered for this (lost prop) they said you haven't told us your back safe so sorry you're not insured. Despite the fact I was paying a higher premium.

The error was mine in not thoroughly understanding the wording, that you must inform of your safe arrival in European waters after the atlantic crossing but the Azores are not considered European waters.

So be very careful and read everything.

 

[Twister_Ken]

An insurer who wanted to wriggle out of paying would have no trouble getting a court to accept that islands aren't part of a continent. For that reason I'm going to make sure I have a written statement of what is covered.

I wonder what the legal definition of 'coastal waters' is. I would have expected that to be up to 12M offshore so could insurers claim a mishap in mid-channel is uninsured?

I am cynical because I once had a boat insured with a 'no claims paid under any circumstances' outfit.

Pants' "European coastal waters up to 200nm off the coast" would seem to include IOM, Eire and many other lumps of rock.

 

[Angele]

So I was still paying Caribbean rates when cruising the Spanish coast on my way back, there was an incident, I contacted the insurers to see if I was covered for this (lost prop) they said you haven't told us your back safe so sorry you're not insured. Despite the fact I was paying a higher premium.

That is outrageous and I'm surprised you think it is your fault. They wouldn't pay up because you were back in Europe, but would have if it had happened earlier.

The loss you describe seems to be totally unrelated to location, although may have been contributed to by conditions from an Atlantic crossing - but you paid extra to insure that risk.

Did you consider taking this to the ombudsman, or did you just accept their refusal to pay up? I would have fought it.

Please name and shame them. I would not want to pay an insurance premium to a company like that.

 

[macd]

An insurer who wanted to wriggle out of paying would have no trouble getting a court to accept that islands aren't part of a continent. For that reason I'm going to make sure I have a written statement of what is covered.

I wonder what the legal definition of 'coastal waters' is. I would have expected that to be up to 12M offshore so could insurers claim a mishap in mid-channel is uninsured?

1. Insurer's may wriggle, but court's aren't at their beck and call. Nor is the Insurance Ombudsman. I'm with Twister-Ken. And I've no dobt that an e-mail would suffice as a 'written statement'.

2. My insurer defines 'UK Coastal' as being:
Waters around the coast up to a distance of 12 miles offshore. (The Isle of Man and Channel Islands are not part of the United Kingdom.) You can travel between two points in the United Kingdom by the most direct route even though this might take You outside the 12 mile limit. It does not include travelling between the United Kingdom and the Isle of Man, or Northern Ireland or the Channel Islands.

(So absurdly, if you were on passage from, say, Holyhead to Portpatrick, you'd be covered to sail past the IoM but not to sail to there.)

Also with a bearing on the 12 mile (or any other) limit, my policy goes on to state that:
"You can travel outside Your cruising limits if You are forced to by:
• the weather;
• any form of danger; and
• an order of a Government or legal authority."

In other words, if you, say, judged it prudent to make seaway and thus go outside the limit rather than meet a blow close to a lee shore, your cover would not be impaired. That seems to me to make eminent sense, and to operate in the interests of both insurer and insured.

 

[snowleopard]

It would seem bizarre that you can cruise the coasts of England and France but to travel between the two you would need to cross where the 12-mile limits intersect, i.e. the Dover Strait!

 

[ditchcrawler]

I found that over the last few years I had not been covered in the inland waters of Holland.Inland waters of UK are covered,but the Brest to Elbe did not cover the inland waters.My insurer wanted to charge me an extra tenner or so but when at renewal time I said I was comparing quotes they included it for free.

 

[PeterGibbs]

On checking mine, this is the response I received...



The extension from Brest to La Rochelle was at my previous request but my concern is that, as has been discussed at length in the Lounge, "United Kingdom" only covers Northern Ireland, not the Republic so I appear not to be covered if I cross the Irish Sea. I'm currently awaiting clarification of this but what does your policy say, and indeed do you actually have it in writing? - I don't.

For no-nonsense affordable cover, I eventually settled on Haven Knox-Johnston. No weasles - just checked it through again! And coverage for such things as you don't normally anticipate such as contracted mooring fees when the boat is out of commission through damage, or the insured is seriously indisposed.

Worth a look.

PWG

 

[DavidMcMullan]

Recent quotation (with Axa) defined Continental Waters between Brest and Elba as:
Continental waters between Brest and Elbe
All tidal, coastal and inland waters between Brest and Elbe. You are not
allowed to travel:
- further north than 61 degrees north;
- further east than 10 degrees east;
- further south than 48 degrees 10 minutes north; and
- further West than 12 degrees West.
Inland and coastal waters of Europe