What is reckless behaviour

Peter,

My concerns were clearly with the fishermen and those who were in the little rowing boats. I have been moboing since I was 4 years old. that is 43 years experience. I have covered many sea miles and a little wake does not annoy me in the slightest. I am a water user who understands the meaning of consideration. I cannot understand why you think I should take up golf because I simply said what I saw. Or perhaps were you offended by the point made regarding education and Licensing ???. Besides If you saw me playing golf you would without doubt recommend I should purchase a boat ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in - everyone else seems to be.

Firstly the wash thing.

If you go to sea you get waves Sorry but thats life.

The only time I would get annoyed about wash is in shallow water where it could cause me to hit the bottom. Otherwise its just another wave

Speed.

There is no sensible argument that increasing speed does not increase risk. Ask any underwriter.

Since reckless involves risk you can't get away from going too fast being reckless.

And what is wrong with slowing down a bit, does it hurt or something.

My personal pet hate is the mobo that appears to use me as a target. Perhaps he has seen me and perhaps he will change course to miss me by a decent margin.

But its the "perhaps" that frightens me.

I don't know whether he's an idiot or an expert

I dare'nt change course cos I might make things worse

At 5 kts you cannot dodge something doing 30 kts

All I can do is hope and trust the other mans competence, which he has already thrown into doubt as far as I'm concerned.

Assuming he misses me its not exactly reckless but on the receiving end its scary, and the idea surely is not to frighten fellow sailors.

These moans apart its something of a non issue where I sail, and I suspect that is the case for most people outside the Solent. Sure you have people who get things wrong and there are occasionally accidents but from my personal experience I can see no reason to introduce any new laws.

Just as a btb there was a deal of entertainment watching the anchoring gymnastics at the Tall Ships races. 97 boats anchored, all pointing NE so why does the 98th try to anchor pointing SW. Brilliant, entertaining, idiotic if you like, but not reckless surely.
 
Hmm. Maybe answers your question. I find that when miles out to sea, my auto pilot , thought to be satalite steared, but maybe a mith. My boat seems to stear via lobster pots and itinerant yachts, making a bee line for each in turn. It's a pain dragging it off it's chosen course as it then wiggles about all over the place before locking on to it's next chosen target, lobster pot, yacht, which ever is nearest. As a curtisy when seeing a mobo comming fast from behind. Iff you could make a quick port or starboard turn and head off in some other direction, it would save me £££ in diesel and maybe desencify my boats auto colision tendancies. Maybe another way would simply to stear round the bays rather than the headland to headland route, which again my auto thingy seems to have a thing about, when it's finnished devouring pots and yachts it seems to head for them as a last resort. So if you could please keep away from them then this may help also. Have you tried tacking, a usual raggy ploy, this limits the trajectory image and the chances of colision only momentaty. Hope this helps!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
It wasnt me honest. Out of a bond movie of which I am a fan However I will have a cross word with Q in the morning /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Re speeds up the Dart and Tamar.
I wish they would emphasise a "No Wash" policy rather than have their respective speed limits. If I was to travel at either 6 or 8kts (GPS wise) and the tide is an ebbing Spring then I will create a massive wash when heading up-river. In those tidal conditions I rarely exceed 5kts OTG going up the Bag in Salcombe, for the same reason.
Think it's just an education issue. Same applies to getting whoever is helming to turn around and look what's happening behind them on a regular basis. I've followed people, both motor sailors and moboers, all the way from Salcombe to Kingsbridge, who have not looked behind them throughout the half hour trip. They are hardly likely to notice the effect of their wake are they.
I hate the thought of regulation but I can't help feeling that some sort of training should be compulsory. Atleast this would be likely to change the behaviour of the many who are simply ignorant as against those (fewer I think) that are ill-mannered or reckless.
 
Re: Hmmmmm

Never realised that people used cruise missile derived autohelms.

Puts a whole new light on things

Rather concerned about tacking, not really an option cos mobos object to us tacking as a rule and consider it offensive (not sure why - but there you are) Also would involve wakening SWMBO which is altogether too much to ask.

As an alternative could I deploy a few dan buoys as a sort of chaff type countermeasure. Or perhaps ECM - could we have a dedicated abuse shouting channel (other than 16) connected to seek and destroy autohelm.

Why does no-one develop such really useful stuff instead of silly picture screen thingys
 
Ah but...there has to be recklessness involved because there was a collision. No ifs, no buts. The rules say, if you were there and you were involved, then you are responsible - again, no ifs, no buts - thats the rules of the sea. Stand on, or otherwise this is the position, and a forward watch is required where sails reduce or negate forward visibility. Stand on cannot be established where visibility does not exist.
 
Mmm - I like your balanced arguments bergman, and I would like to think that anyone from my area wouldn't deliberately set out to scare you.

One of the things I have taught my son (apart from the fact that he now has his PB2) is not to scare anyone. The point you make about not being able to distinguish idiot from expert, at an approaching 30 kn is very valid.
 
Well Hadyn we must have related autopilots cos mine, on a yacht, can spy a MoBo from 20 miles away and accurately ensure that we are placed directly in its way no matter what. It has a particular skill in tricking MoBo's into thinking they are keeping clear but then manages to tack right in front of them, which any bearded and pipemouthed sailor of the rope pulling kind will tell you raggies can do with impunity.

Maybe we need to have our autopilots meet up one day for a kinda Fisher/Spassky battle of wits /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

In any event, for the benefit of others, I thought reckless behaviour was very clearly defined and not subjective at all. Any boaty behaviour that doesn't result in a reck is surely reckless.

John
 
What a lot of posts? You have struck a cord here.

Seems to me it comes back down to knowing what effect you have upon others.

Examples could be; on a yacht you to look out for others so you don't tack onto them, on a motor boat you need to look behind you to see the effect of your wake, in a pub you don't pick a fight, and on the motorway you don't undertake.

Common decency allied with a basic concept of the environment you are sharing with others?
 
I agree a cord has been struck and I think it’s the common experience of the majority of motor boaters that we get unnecessary levels of stick from time to time, maybe if this issue is discussed occasionally it will raise the profile and perhaps the tendency against our sport will diminish?

There are many people in this country of ours that don’t get to enjoy what they used to because the greater majority don’t understand the finer intricacies, the have a go brigade target whatever it is and the moment there is a minor disaster all change.

I am as aware as anybody that some form of legislation is inevitable, I for one don’t want to be an unconscious contributor in my activity in accepting labels of reckless just for speed related reasons.

The freedom and apparent lack of regulations on the seas is to me one of the past times greatest enjoyments.

I was hoping for a long thread, maybe some from the other side will have a read and see the point, regulation will effect them as much as us.
 
"I agree a cord has been struck and I think it’s the common experience of the majority of motor boaters that we get unnecessary levels of stick from time to time, ......."


Surely if you're getting stick it's because you've upset somebody. I don't believe this is the common experience of motor boaters at all. The majority are experienced and considerate. This "head in the sand" attitude is the problem and I believe it will ultimately result in mandatory licensing for power boat drivers. I drive powerboats now and then and I don't want to have to take yet another test to continue doing so. And btw, noone has ever shouted at me to slow down!
 
Maybe its a UK thing, was out in Italy the other week and they do have some form of regulation, however we were in and out of a very busy marina and everyone from kiddies in small ribs to big Pershings etc where just zooming in and out all over the gaff, lots of wash and peeps getting quite close on entering the marina. No one the whole time we were there was getting upset and fist waving or shouting at each other. They just seem to accept that is the way it is, you buy a boat and sometimes its a bit bumpy and wet.

Secondly, we never saw one official or heard one converstaion on the VHF. People just sort of know the rules and kinda stick (sort of) to them. Over here, you need clearance to enter, clearance leave, clearance to berth, clearance to go through the bridge, its a full time job just to work the radio. Off topic a bit I know but just illustrates our constant need to be molly cuddled all the time and feel big brother is there watching to enforce the rules. Why can't people just get on with it and stop moaning, its like being back a school, 'if you don't stop I am telling teacher'.........nah, nah, nah-nah nah.

I would think a good percentage of the people out and about on the Italian Riveria would be classed a reckless by some on here yet they don't seem to have more accidents or fatalities than we do.
 
The only time I have been shouted at this year was when I was overtaken! by a racing yacht in the Chichester channel, but I am tuned into the general attitudes going around and I can see where its all going, agree with you about head in the sand though.

I am not as uptight about this issue as I might appear, I really still enjoy the majority of my boating experiences, I just get a bit sick when the perfect day is ruined by the odd twat.
 
It's worth reporting bad behaviour to the harbour office as there is a campaign by the harbour master to promote good manners in the harbour.

As the Harbour master is a member of Itchenor SC I'm sure he would be interested in any bad manners from his fellow club members. I'm assuming that this yacht was from Itchenor as they are the ones that usually race across the channel where as Haying Island try to keep out of the main channels.

Get his sail number, boat type and report him.
 
2002 Cherbourg
40 boats arrive on RYA cruise together.
French advise everyone must go under the road bridge that will lift for 5 mins only and then close, anyone who does not make it will be turned away from inner and outer marinas.
French instruction is to make best speed.
40 boats at 10 knots past all boats in the marina at the end of the line some were on the plane to catch up, looked dangerous and reckless to me, it was only the English that shouted.


We had a Radar arch that hinged so we sauntered on behind but what a mess.

What would you do, join the charge or anchor in the outer harbour where you will get knocked about all night.
 
Lets assume 5 knots is a reasonable low wash sort of speed for a moment.
5 knots = 5 x 6080feet in 1 hour = about 8.4 feet per second.
40 boats in 5 minutes = 1 boat every 7.5 seconds to get through in 5 minutes.

7.5 seconds x 8.4 feet = 63 feet seperation between boats.
At 10knots you would have 126 feet seperation.

On the plane????? totally unnecessary.....IMHO of course /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
you have assumed a French min is 60 seconds long, the bridge closed on top of us and would have taken the arch off.

many boats were still in the inner outer harbour when the bridge went up 40 boats stretch a long way.
For anyone not familiar with Cherbourg,
Cherbourg has an outer, inner outer then an outer marina then an inner marina for small French boats then under the bridge to the inner inner marina.
 
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