What is a Classic Boat

[crazycook]

Bajansailor

Steel boat yes, but not a double ender, still it was a long shot........... we heard there was perhaps only about 6 built, ours being a ketch, and we have heard that there was a gaff rigged one somewhere.
Our boat was built by FL Steelcraft in Borth in Wales between 1980-1984, and spent time on the Thames before sailing around the South coast and eventually to down here in the Med, the boat's name is Vellamo.

 

[Amulet]

The ultimate definition of a classic boat is financial. They are wonderfully stable investments. You can buy a classic boat for £20K, spend £15K a year for five years restoring her, and be 100% confident that she's still worth £20k. (Multiply my numbers by the factor appropriate to your budget.)

 

[Madhatter]

Perhaps the answer is------->

to use wood grain "fablon " instead of paint !!
or
use the old 50s-60s method of wood graining ----------------->>>>runs away------>

 

[Seanick]

How about.....a classic boat is any one that is biodegradeable if not maintained.........

 

[maffra]

Peter,

Might have missed it somewhere but what is her construction, Is she a restoration or a new build?

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

How about.....a classic boat is any one that is biodegradeable if not maintained.........

_____________________________________________________________

Bit like the bank account of anyone that owns one!

 

[Cliveshep]

Plastic pig or classic cruiser?

How about mine, not bio-degradeable but one of the boats from the 60's/70's still looking "boaty" to my eyes and every bit as much a classical design in it's way as wooden boats of half a century earlier.

 

[peter radclyffe]

maffra , patience is a restoration

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

I remember reading that the owners of original Bristol Channel Pilot Cutters got all hissy about the crop of new ones .... I should think by now there must be as many new ones as old ones ... is it a good thing new ones are being built? .... or not? ... or what?

 

[Woodlouse]

I remember reading that the owners of original Bristol Channel Pilot Cutters got all hissy about the crop of new ones .... I should think by now there must be as many new ones as old ones ... is it a good thing new ones are being built? .... or not? ... or what?

They weren't hissy about them being built. But some do get annoyed at the fact that they're built and sold as Bristol Channel Pilot Cutters. Have to say I can see where they're coming from. Especially when someone commissions and new boat when they could have completely restored an original for the same money.

 

[CY10]

Lots of people get hissy about this subject...

To those who say "There's nothing naffer than a plastic gaffer"
I would reply "There's nothing smugger than a wooden bugger".

It's all in the lines..............

 

[westernman]

They weren't hissy about them being built. But some do get annoyed at the fact that they're built and sold as Bristol Channel Pilot Cutters. Have to say I can see where they're coming from. Especially when someone commissions and new boat when they could have completely restored an original for the same money.

But now as far as I am aware, there are no original BCPCs left to restore.

So if you want one you need to build a new one, which can be either a strict replica, or a new design.

In a new design, you might want to put a big chunk of lead into the keel. Then instead of filling the bilges up with cement for ballast, you can have space, for instance, for a big water tank (like I have ). If the ballast is lower down, you can have bigger rig and go faster, etc etc. Then you might want an autohelm, or even a winch or two!

The two things is probably why the Bristol Channel Pilot Cutters Owners Association are still a bit touchy about the new ones - they still want to win some races!

The original aim, to make sure that all the originals get restored has largely been achieved.

NB. no two pilot cutters where ever the same - each yard/owner 'optimized' the design in their own way.

Any way no boat can be a pilot cutter unless it has carried a pilot and put him on board a ship for duty.

 

[peter radclyffe]

No replica emigrant ship unless it carries emigrants
No colin archer rescue boats unless someone (wouldn’t be a pilot would it ) got rescued
No replica tea clippers unless they have come back from china carrying tea, for the rescued emigrant pilots
What a lot of nonsense

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

I think Mascotte has gone away to Scotland ..... is Peggy still up Bristol way?

 

[Carlotta]

The BCPC Owner's Association is divided on the topic of replicas.
Some feel there is no place for them in the assc. Others welcome the idea of them in the assc.
A problem is that the originals are a very small gene pool - there are only 17 left and they are scattered all over Europe and as far away as BC. So getting a significant number of them together for a race or gathering is limited.
I think the new replicas should be welcome into the assc. and the races to keep things growing and people interested in the boats. If folks are keen enough to pursue a boat that has been faithfully built to the design of a BCPC hull and rig why should they not be included?

Myself, being so far away from the fleet of BCPC's (be them replicas or originals) - Carlotta is somewhat unique here on the Pacific NW coast. I'd welcome the chance to sail in accompany with a replica if there was one!

 

[Woodlouse]

No replica emigrant ship unless it carries emigrants
No colin archer rescue boats unless someone (wouldn’t be a pilot would it ) got rescued
No replica tea clippers unless they have come back from china carrying tea, for the rescued emigrant pilots
What a lot of nonsense

The point is they aren't described as replicas by those who build them. I for one like to know when I'm looking at the real thing and when I'm looking at a copy.

There aren't any replica colin archer rescue boats. There are many boats build along those lines, but usually they lack the finesse of the originals and they become even more short and fat and do no good to the term Colin Archer. Newer boats are never described by their builders or owners as 'Rescue boats'.

But now as far as I am aware, there are no original BCPCs left to restore.

There is the Breeze and the Raider, in Porlock and Martha's Vineyard respectively both in need of restoration, but both owned by owners both unwilling to do the work or sell. My point though was Mascotte and Cornubia (ex-Hirta), both were on the market for years before Mascotte finally sold last year. And yes, she has now gone to the West Coast of Scotland.


As for the replicas, I have nothing against them being built, and I have nothing against them racing with the original boats. The Pilot Cutter Reviews in Cornwall the last few years have been the best racing for Classics in the whole west country. And just incase your interested in comparable performance, a few years ago, the first four boats across the line finished within five seconds of each other, they were in no particular order, a replica Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter, an original Bristol Channel Pilot cutter, a replica Scillonian Pilot Cutter, and a Colin Archer.

 

[westernman]

The point is they aren't described as replicas by those who build them. I for one like to know when I'm looking at the real thing and when I'm looking at a copy.

Some of the originals are not very original. A lot of them, for example Peggy (ex Wave) has a much bigger rig than she orignally had.

Cornubia has been so completely rebuilt in her last that there is nothing original left (apart from one small piece of wood in the cockpit).

So is Corunbia an original, or a replica? Is Peggy still original with her new more efficient rig and the epoxy glue holding various bits together??????

Anyway, they are all boats which in my book are classic in some poorly defined way- and I sail one of them whatever anybody likes to call it. Classic or not.

 

[Woodlouse]

Some of the originals are not very original. A lot of them, for example Peggy (ex Wave) has a much bigger rig than she orignally had.

Cornubia has been so completely rebuilt in her last that there is nothing original left (apart from one small piece of wood in the cockpit).

So is Corunbia an original, or a replica? Is Peggy still original with her new more efficient rig and the epoxy glue holding various bits together??????

Anyway, they are all boats which in my book are classic in some poorly defined way- and I sail one of them whatever anybody likes to call it. Classic or not.

Well, legally if a boat is taken apart, and put back together with new materials in the same air space then it is the same boat. Interestingly, if you then took all the old material, and reconstructed the boat from that then legally that one would be considered a different ship. A replica.

No one will tell you at which point in a restoration a boat becomes a replica, and in my opinion it doesn't, because if it did, then there would be very few old wooden boats left indeed.


As for the boats bigger rigs, yes, most of them are much bigger than the original working rigs. But when the pilots went racing these grew quite dramatically. Alpha for example had a topsail that required a 40ft topsail spar and a 25 foot jackyard to set it on.

 

[Romeo]

Well, legally if a boat is taken apart, and put back together with new materials in the same air space then it is the same boat.

Well if that is right it is barking mad. If anyone else is thinking of doing that please dont. Just do the honest thing and built a new boat on similar lines. The old boat then remains either for someone to patch up or to disintegrate slowly in the traditional way, rather than ending up bit by bit in the boatyard skip. All IMHO of course.

 

[Woodlouse]

Well if that is right it is barking mad. If anyone else is thinking of doing that please dont. Just do the honest thing and built a new boat on similar lines. The old boat then remains either for someone to patch up or to disintegrate slowly in the traditional way, rather than ending up bit by bit in the boatyard skip. All IMHO of course.

And if patching up results in everything ultimately being replaced? Or would you rather see a boat rot because getting it sailing again would replace too much?