What engine configuration would you choose???

An aussie cat has just put IPS in them - cant be a more fuel efficient set up than that. I am not keen on twin shafts - heavy and expensive, difficult to maintain and access, rudder installations. 2 small diesels may work for river/estuary say 2x20hp. Single outboard cheapest solution.
 
Believe me nodody buying a boat for river use would actualy consider the wash as a purchase requirement, I'm afraid a cat would be totaly useless on the river as you wouldn't be able to get into most bankside moorings. Yes i know they are shallow draft but you need less than a foot at the sides these days, a vee hull is perfect, also twin shafts would be too vunerable for the same reason.

I can see why most people go for twin outboards, purchase cost, cheap to service, easy to clear props, twin engine handling, two engine oneupmanship!
But a single diesel is the cold logical choice in the UK, not much fun though /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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what about twin diesel/electric inboard hybrids



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Having owned and used a Petrol boat on the inland rivers at 4 mph and also used the same boat for coastal use at 30 mph the fuel costs on rivers are irrelevant, a jerry can will keep you amused all day !

Hybrids are unlikely to appeal to any experienced users.

Thats not to say Hybrids dont have a place, new users or dozy authorities not spending their own money may go for the apparent ideal solution.

I agree with Chris d on the shallow draft either side.
Weed can also be a problem for inland users and an outdrive that draws from one deep center point has advantages.
 
We used cat perfectly happily on Broads with twin outboards but I take your point. Not something I had thought of. Single d3 cost £13k compared with a say a 70hp outboard for say 5k. Thats a big difference and diesel engine has higher maintenance costs. Weight of diesel engine is say 300kg compared with outbaord of 100kg. I dont fully understand why people just say diesel engine is obvious choice particularly if petrol and diesel prices come more in line in the future.
 
I wd imagine that the bulk of your target market is ideally considering a monhull with diesels. If it could at least be diesel it will "add up" more? It shouldn't lose the ability to take the ground imho.
 
I agree - also the safety angle would be improved because you don't have one single point of failure. Remember, a boat without an engine is nothing more than a raft. Also, definitely stern drives as you can lift them to let the boat settle where ever you like.

BTW - do I detect some vailed advertising here Victor...hmmm?? A couple of nice shots of boats you are selling maybe??

I have to say, they do look nice though /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Broads not really that representative of river use I would say, done petrol to death its not the cost, its the availability you soon get fed up of lugging jerry cans around.
I hate my new diesels when compared to my old petrol engine, they are noisy heavy, vibrate like hell incomparison, but for any sort of extended cruising i.e over 50 miles, it has to be diesel in the UK. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
We spend a small fortune on shows etc. I dont mean to use forum to advertise -I only think to raise points that merit discussion. I cant deny that I hope some of the feedback might be useful commercially. I was wondering if people might discuss hybrids, jets etc Also wondering if there were any points I had not thought of - like river banks in earlier post. Also wondered how much of a premium people were prepared to pay for diesel engine and reasoning.
 
I am not against OBs - have done many trips with singles etc over the years.

You quote a single OB 70 installation v a single 130 diesel OD - not a fair price comparison.

I would certainly consider 2x60s ETECs v a D3 - 130 - but the availability of petorl v diesel for coastal cruising would more than resolve that one back into the D3's favour for me. I am happy to cruise with a single unit and modern OBs are pretty reliable from my experiences.

Running mainly in rivers, lakes and estuaries I would probably go for twin 25s.
 
2x25 outboards makes sense to me. Cant be a lot of jerry can lugging with such small engines. Probably a fill up will last most of season at low speed cruising!!!!.
 
I was at Tescos moorings at Reading on the Thames last weekend, the guy in front had a single 25hp honda on the back of his Shetland 4+4, he made 3 trips to the petrol station with a 5gallon jerry can in his baby buggy, I smiled at him on the 3rd trip "I'm buying a F***!!! diesel next time, I've only come from Windsor!".
We live and learn.
 
I used to run a 35HP outboard on the Kennet & Avon canal and found getting petrol a right pain in the backside. The availability of petrol is extremely low and people's willingness to lug cans is limited, and of course they need to be stowed.

Diesel electric drive sounds interesting, does the engine charge batteries and then get shut off or is the engine running all the while and the transmission is electric?
 
Blimey. We burnt 2.5 litres per hour at 7 mph with small engines. We fill up at beginning of season and pick up a couple of jerry cans on the way to boat. Doesnt seem very arduous.
 
My thought with diesel electric would be to put a diesel generator in the pod, extra batteries and two electric drives in the hulls. You could charge overnight and have sufficient power in batteries to run for the day. Alternatively start genset to power a battery charger which is enough to power boat diesel/electric. Alternatively Vetus do small diesel inboards 10 or 20 hp with electric engine attached to shaft so they can run on diesel or electric. Seems to me that you need a cat with highly efficient hulls as a starting point for electric drives.
 
I love the idea of a Diesel charging and electric drives.

If you run an electric motor at half power it uses half fuel - run a diesel at half power it still uses more than half fuel...

However - what is the most powerful elec drive you can get for sensible cost - a couple of 3hp elec motors won't be a lot of fun!!!

And again - will all come down to cost.

Now what speed do you get from twin 25's - cos there are plenty of peeps (I am not one of them) that would be happy with about 10 knots...)
 
More D/E thoughts

I guess that the engine, well generator actually, would need to be very well sound insulated as the primary attraction of electric tends to be, as I understand it, that it is quiet and green. A D/E setup could not really be promoted as "green", inland boaters in areas where electric boats get reduced licence fees would not benefit so it would need to be seriously silent.

If you are carrying a big generator instead of an engine it seems to me that 12V is probably not the way forward. How big is a 10HP electric motor that runs off 240V and would you have 240V to something down in the potentially wet bilges? It does then give the attraction of all electric facilities on board: no gas system for BSS. Still not up to much for estuary and coastal, or is it?
 
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Twin Yam 60 hi thrust with hydraulic steering is same price as diesel d3 130 hp. Both just over 60k mark inc VAT.

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So inc VAT the boat is just over 60k with engine(s). What else do you get for that money, like whats inside.

In some ways this is an ideal boat for the C I as it has stability shelter can dry out easy has enough accomodation for the weekends in Jersey (aaaarghhh did I really say that) and France and enough to squeeze the kids in aswell whilst they are young.

Speed would be good if it could do 30 knots. How comes you can squeeze a 130 in there bit not a 190? how stable is it in rough seas? How much does she draw about a metre??
 
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If you are carrying a big generator instead of an engine

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I am very concerned with cooling on Rivers.
Could a generator be air cooled ?

The bow will act as a great big scoop and funnel all weed and debris straight to the coolant water, a standard Hull shape is designed to push aside water/debris/weed as the wedge shape protects the prop.

But the scoop will send any bags straight to the props that will not be deep enough .

Rivers are full of Tescos bags and fertilizer bags that float just under the surface, a single outdrive at the bottom of a V shaped hull misses most floating debris.

Even a single outdrive on this cat will sit high and all debris will be at prop level.

Of course some Rivers have now been cleaned and are in perfect health

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That is healthy June weed, floating on the top. An outdrive boat can draw its coolant water from below the weed.

By August the 'Duck Weed ' will be prominent that will be a foot or so deep by the time it is scooped up. Green boats will need to work out how to navigate these new 'HEALTHY' Inland Rivers.
 
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