What Does Insurance Cover You For?

[jeffsnox]

Once again this forum (due to you guys) has proved to be an invaluable source of information and advice. Many thanks!

The Centaur in question is an original late model (1978).

Standing rigging was done in 2001, and the engine was rebuilt (cylinders re-lined, valves ground etc) in the same year.

All ports seem sound.

General condition is very good.

Osmosis is present but doesn't seem excessive - although the boat has been out of the water for 12 months, so I'm told that blisters may have diminished. Moisture meter reads about 3 times the level below as above water line - so perhaps a little too high for a boat out of the water for 12 months.

Sails all in working order and clean/mold free - but are all about 15 years old.

Hull bolts do have the strengthening as seen in the later Centaur models - and no damage or cracking noted around them.

Seeping at the hull bolts is only known about because the current owner told me. It's reported as being "very very minor - more of a dampness buildup over time" - but that's obviously on the owner's word, and things have perhaps changed since it was last in the water.

Headlinings renewed recently.

Gas locker not draining type.


Any additional thoughts on the above very gratefully received.

 

[Bilgediver]

Rigging failures are usually fatigue failures and yes a wire may fail without any prior sign of failure however if the wire is out of use ie mast down and boat ashore then no fatigue life is being used up. Even a boat layed up afloat is using up fatigue life as the rigging can vibrate in the strongest winds.

Most failures seem to occur close to fittings and not all wires would fail at once and inspection should identify broken strands. This is quite normal practice in the big marine industry.

The exception to this might be an overload failure however this would be abnormal on well designed boat.

I have come across many elderly boats such as centaurs where there is no record of the rigging being changed for well in excess of 20 plus years and still appearing to do its job.

SOme fittings are also more susceptable to fatigue failure such as the ball end type fittings Westerly used for some years and I would be wary of using these items for extended life as they seem to fail at the mast end fitting (not the wire) and this can be unforseen.

I must admit I was surprised at the responce to the question I put in view of the apparent attitude of surveyors giving all wire A 10 year life however I know of other instances where a baot owner who knows the history of his rigging in use and out of use ashore has had agreement from his insurance company that there is no need to aply a ten year dead line.

I spent some tiome talking to insurance companies at SIBS about such things as.....single handed sailing....night sailing.....life expectancy of saildrive gaskets....rigging life......and Age limits as well as size restriction on boats for being sailed single handed and was in some cases somewhat pleasantly surprised at the answers received . All I can say is speak to your insurers and get their view as the surveyor may not be singing from their hymn sheet.

 

[Bilgediver]

Once again this forum (due to you guys) has proved to be an invaluable source of information and advice. Many thanks!
.........
The Centaur in question is an original late model (1978).


THIS IS A GOOD MODEL AND WILL NOT HAVE THE INNER STAY TO CABIN ROOF PROBLEM AS SMALLER WINDOWS FITTED.....

Standing rigging was done in 2001, and the engine was rebuilt (cylinders re-lined, valves ground etc) in the same year.


THIS IS YOUR ANSWER.....NO WHERE NEAR ANYONES LIFETIME /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

All ports seem sound.



GOOD.......CHANGE SEALS IF USING EXCESSIVE PRESSURE TO CLOSE.

General condition is very good.

OFTEN THE CASE..

Osmosis is present but doesn't seem excessive - although the boat has been out of the water for 12 months, so I'm told that blisters may have diminished. Moisture meter reads about 3 times the level below as above water line - so perhaps a little too high for a boat out of the water for 12 months.


THE SO CALLED MOISTURE IS NOT MOISTURE BUT A PRODUCT OF OSMOSIS AND IS TRAPPED. IT WILL ONLY REDUCE IF THE BLISTERS ARE PIERCED AND THE EXPOSED GELCOAT BREATHES. GET A PRICE REDUCTION.


Sails all in working order and clean/mold free - but are all about 15 years old.


MINE ARE 30 YEAR OLD RATSEYS AND BETTER THAN SOME MODERN SAILS BUT THEY DO GET ATTENTION IN THE WINTER.

Hull bolts do have the strengthening as seen in the later Centaur models - and no damage or cracking noted around them.

Seeping at the hull bolts is only known about because the current owner told me. It's reported as being "very very minor - more of a dampness buildup over time" - but that's obviously on the owner's word, and things have perhaps changed since it was last in the water.

THIS COULD HAVE BEEN RAIN OR CONDENSATION SO BEWARE OF RUNNING UP BIG BILLS WITHOUT RULING THESE OUT

Headlinings renewed recently.

Gas locker not draining type.

DIFFERENT INSURANCE COMAPNIES HAVE DIFFERENT RULES
HOWEVER THERE IS A LOCKER MOD FOR THE CENTAUR WHICH IS INSERTED INTO ONE OF THE COCKPIT SEATS AND DRAINS OVERBOARD.

tHE USUAL SAFE MINIMUM IS A LOCKER IN WHICH THE BOTTLES ARE SECURED AND IS GAS PROOF TO ABOVE THE LEVEL OF THE TOP OF THE BOTTLE AND DRAINS OVERBOARD.
UNFORTUNATELY IN THE CENTAUR THERE ARE PATHS FROM SOME LOCKERS TO THE ENGINE BILGES AND THE ORIGINAL GAS LOCKER COULD HAVE DRAINED INTO THE COCKPIT.

CALOR GAS IN SOUTHAMPTON CAN SUPPLY BASIC LOCKERS AND FITTINGS. A SHORT TERM FIX IS TO PUT THE BOTTLE ON THE PUSHPIT IF TIS IS A PROBLEM. sOME INSURANCE COMPANIES STILL DO NOT FORCE THE ISSSUE HERE MINE DOES

MANY OF US HAVE FITTED ORIGO SPIRIT STOVES.


Any additional thoughts on the above very gratefully receive.

SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A DECENT BOAT AND SO AN OFFER REDUCED TO COVER REMEDIAL WORK ON THE OSMOSIS IS THE MAIN CONSIDERATION MAYBE SOME MENTION OF THE GAS LOCKER.

 

[Chris_Robb]

[ QUOTE ]
1. My mast (on my previous boat) broke when sailing with genoa only in a force four. The insurance company had it inspected and concluded that, as it was 24 years old it had reached the end of its useful life. They did pay out, but not for the complete cost of renewal, only for the resulting cost of new rigging as it was not possible to get a mast that would use the old stuff.


[/ QUOTE ]
Insurers vary on their cover on mast. Some like Navigators, provided you have evidence that you have maintained the mast (rigging replacement invoices etc) then their cover is almost new for old.

Others - and Panteneious used to be like this - not certain now, but if it is over 10 years old, they will effectively apply Betterment - ie they will not pay for anything better than the old one. They do not use an old fashioned "betterment "clause in the contract, but acheive the same effect by estimating the life span of the article, and applying a straight line "depreciation" to it.

Thus when you have a claim on a boat of 20 years old - an insurer may say that it only has a reasonable life span of 25 years - so you end up with a large unexpected bill.

I would prefer to make sure my cover, even if more expensive, did not leave me with this potential hole in my pocket.

Who was your insurer?