What does 'built to xxxx Llyods standard mean?

[tmh900]

Seen this a number of times in boats for sale adds. e.g. a Dehler yacht "built to Germanischer Lloyd's standard".

I guess more to the point, when buying a production ben/jen/bav/dehler etc. does it really make any difference?

Edit - any why can't we edit titles . Was meant to say "Lloyds"

 

[PeterGibbs]

Seen this a number of times in boats for sale adds. e.g. a Dehler yacht "built to Germanischer Lloyd's standard".

I guess more to the point, when buying a production ben/jen/bav/dehler etc. does it really make any difference?

Edit - any why can't we edit titles . Was meant to say "Lloyds"

The concept that an individual new boat was inspected before sale and passed to any external standard has faded with time. It has little relevance to a hull that could be 20 seasons on the water.

Now when offered on a new boat it can be compared to any general standard (ISO 9000 springs to mind) and relates more to the way in which the manufacturer builds than a certification of fitness for a specific vessel.

PWG

 

[colvic987]

http://www.gl-group.com/en/ci/6112.php

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Basicaly Lloyds Certifying Authority have reviewed a design and the manufacturing methods to their standards. If the boat meets their standards of dsign and manufacture then the design and build method gets approved.

If you go to the Lloyds web site you can see all the titles of the the standards but you have to buy them to see the text.

What you are getting is a design and build that has been been independantly reviewed. Designs used to have Independant Review Certificates and the completed hull issued with a Certificate of Conformity.

It is likely that a mass production boat is Type Approved and the Company just builds to a standard that Lloyds approved. It may not be a Lloyds Classification compliant design. Lloyds will conduct an annual audit (or some other time period) to maintain Type Approval.

There is another type of registration where a boat is built to its classification. For example many early Rivals were individualy built under the Supervision of a Lloyds Surveyor. To remain in classification the owner would have to maintain and survey the boat in compliance with Lloyds Standards using type approved materials and methods and have a survey by a Lloyds surveyor. If not then the boat fell out of classification.

It is possible that there are some yachts out there that are maintained in class by their owners, but not likely. It is also possible to have the boat re classed at great expense but that it would be to the new Lloyds standards. Yachts still in class do not have to comply with future revisions to the standards,

Lloyds maintain a list of all yachts that were classed and you can get some useful information on the history of the boat. Most Lloyds Classification yachts will have a plate mounted on a bulkhead stating the number

PterGib states ISO9000 (probably ISO9000 Part 1) which is a Management Standard that describes elements of design, manufacture and quality control that a well managed company would use, it does not actually have any meaning in so far as aspect of design is concerned. The Lloyds standards are about bulkhead design, engine space requirements, electrical design, bulkhead penetration design, for example.

I looked into this a few years ago and the above is my recollection.

 

[tmh900]

So for a 20 year old boat from a production run of a couple of hundred, probably has little reelvance then?

 

[Boathook]

Lloyds (of London) and Germanischer Lloyds (Germany) are 2 separate companies and possibly have different standards that boats are built to.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

PterGib states ISO9000 (probably ISO9000 Part 1) which is a Management Standard that describes elements of design, manufacture and quality control that a well managed company would use, it does not actually have any meaning in so far as aspect of design is concerned. The Lloyds standards are about bulkhead design, engine space requirements, electrical design, bulkhead penetration design, for example.

BOB is quite right to seperate the two systems. Many companies have an ISO 9000 or BS5750 system of quality management which is audited every year by an outfit like Lloyds. Despite my best efforts I used to reckon we only complied with 5750 on the day of the audit - product quality didnt vary but the paperwork did.

But thats altogether different from a design standard. You could have a boat made out of cardboard and provided it went through the QC systems as proscribed in your quality manual, you would be OK. In other words, what design or materials you use is one issue. Sticking strictly to the system and decisions you have made when you do the building is another

It's why you could argue that a modern Bav would be of higher quality build than an old Rival because the former would be much closer to what the build plan was and would be near identical with the next Bav off the line and the next and the .......

 

[maxi77]

Their is a world of difference to the statement 'built to' and 'approved' or 'certified'.

Built to suggests that they have used the classification society rules as a guide, where as approved or certified suggests that the design has been checked by the classification society.

When I designed steering gears they were 'approved' and I had a set of drawings stamped and signed by Lloyds. If this does not exist for the boat then it has not been checked

 

[Ubergeekian]

Now when offered on a new boat it can be compared to any general standard (ISO 9000 springs to mind) and relates more to the way in which the manufacturer builds than a certification of fitness for a specific vessel.

One needs to be aware, though, that ISO9000 and the like do not suggest or guarantee any particular quality. All they mean is, to put it simply, that the company is building to the standard it intends to - so building rubbish in a controlled, consistent and documented way is fine.

 

[Bajansailor]

Lloyds (of London) and Germanischer Lloyds (Germany) are 2 separate companies and possibly have different standards that boats are built to.

And to confuse things even more, Lloyds of London (at One Lime Street) are the folk who deal in insurance - and they are completely different to Lloyds Register (around the corner, at 71 Fenchurch Street), who are one of the main ship classification societies, same as Germanischer Lloyd, Det Norske Veritas, et al.
And I don't think either of them are related in any way to Lloyds TSB......

 

[Refueler]

Lets put this right ....

ISO 9000 / BS 5750 etc. have nothing to do with the OP ....

Second he asks about 'built to .... '

Answer :

A designer and production facility will put forward a design and specification for approval by a Classification Society to receive "Built to xxxxx Society".

It is up to Classification society to attend build of FIRST boat or to inspect ... to approve or reject application. In fact they don't need to attend if sufficient data / info is provided on materials used and scantlings etc.

ALL subsequent builds receive the same Certification based on building to same materials, design, scantlings etc. ANY change and that certification is void on that changed boat.

Second - you can have a production facility that is approved to XXXX standards regardless of what boat they build, as long as they follow specific paths on materials, construction, NDT, scantlings etc.

For a used boat - it means very little really as it has no bearing on what owners have subjected the boat to.
For a New boat - it is supposed to ensure quality of build and provide a comfort factor to purchaser. But as with any product there are Monday Morning and Friday Afternoon boats .............

As a Marine Surveyor - I disregard the lesser general Classification Cert. I value the actual Certification of individual boat by specific inspection - which is a completely different expensive matter.