What do you offer (money wise) for the boat

[[163233]]

Seems a bit of an archaic process. Do sellers / brokers add 20% to the price in the expectation of receiving an offer 20% below the asking price. A bit of a pointless exercise. I was pleased to read that the buyer rejected the low offer. I don't see the point is going to see a boat, wasting everyone's time, if you can't afford or aren't prepared to pay the asking price. I accept that I hold a minority view, though.

Do you really advertise at the lowest price you would accept?
You should try asking slightly more, you might get it.

 

[theoldsalt]

I was recently in the situation of finding a boat far away that I was interested in. The price was higher than I wanted to pay.
I made a conditional offer giving clear reasons why my price was as it was and asked if the owner was willing to consider such an offer. The broker got back to me with a yes.
I flew/drove to look at the boat, commissioned surveys and then confirmed my offer. The boat is now mine.

I feel that the asking price is irrelevant. As the buyer, you know how much you are willing to pay and that is what you offer. If the seller rejects the offer, you move on.
I would never travel any distance to look at a boat until the seller had agreed conditionally to what I was willing to pay.

However there is always the possibility that the seller agrees a lower figure on the phone (etc) then when you go to the expense of travelling great distance to view the seller changes his mind thinking he has a "captive" buyer.
I distrust sellers as much as buyers.

 

[AquaholicM31]

Whilst looking at boats last year i drove 400miles to view one particular boat. Was reasonably up together and in my opinion worth what the seller was now asking (it had been on the market for 5-6 months and recently reduced).
I subsequently made an offer of the full asking price to the broker who had to call me up in embarrassment an hour later to say that the seller had now decided he didn't want to sell, even at full asking price.
So % of asking price is never a hard and fast rule and to echo others comments the only way to buy a boat is to imagine you had never even seen the price and offer what its worth to you.
(other boats i have bought at 99% reduction on asking price because sellers were desperate to sell and avoid yard fees)

 

[Cactus Sailing]

Seems a bit of an archaic process. Do sellers / brokers add 20% to the price in the expectation of receiving an offer 20% below the asking price. A bit of a pointless exercise. I was pleased to read that the buyer rejected the low offer. I don't see the point is going to see a boat, wasting everyone's time, if you can't afford or aren't prepared to pay the asking price. I accept that I hold a minority view, though.

more than prepared to pay the asking price if its in as good a condition as advertised, but when you find out it was last out the water over a year ago, the owner hasn't really done anything or been anywhere in it for the last year because they lost interest, they haven't even cleaned it, however they are more than happy to say over the phone its completely up to date all servicing done and looked after regardless of cost... not to mention the life raft out of date etc,

if anything I have found out is brokers don't know anything about boats, and know less about the owners boat they're selling on their books, they may well give their clients unrealistic expectations on price, as its clear he wants too much for the boat in the condition its in looking what's available on the marketplace, if he wanted to do the works himself he can have the full asking price - simple. and that's just the surface stuff, what's the surveyor going to find?

Sellers who not wish to be inconvenienced by those nuisance buyers who are unwilling to buy their boats unseen and pay the full asking price can always include in their adverts the magic words: " NO TIME WASTERS !" That's usually pretty effective.

they could just put no offers whatsoever on their listing, in return I would expect a 100% honest listing every single scratch / mark / stain and non working part - equally sellers can waste my time too.

 

[Poignard]

Whilst looking at boats last year i drove 400miles to view one particular boat. Was reasonably up together and in my opinion worth what the seller was now asking (it had been on the market for 5-6 months and recently reduced).
I subsequently made an offer of the full asking price to the broker who had to call me up in embarrassment an hour later to say that the seller had now decided he didn't want to sell, even at full asking price.
So % of asking price is never a hard and fast rule and to echo others comments the only way to buy a boat is to imagine you had never even seen the price and offer what its worth to you.
(other boats i have bought at 99% reduction on asking price because sellers were desperate to sell and avoid yard fees)

If he withdrew the boat from sale after receiving your offer, he was in breach of contract. (as well as being an ill-mannered w----r)

 

[RichardS]

Cash is always king with sellers. I went to test drive a new car a couple of days ago and even before the test drive the salesman started talking about finance and part-ex so I said that it would be a cash deal and we could agree the discount later. He replied that this model is in great demand and that no discounts are available. I had already checked on the car supermarket sites online and knew he was right.

After the test drive I said I would take the car with all the options for cash, now, but the options must be thrown in free. He went off for about 10 minutes then came back and we shook hands.

Maybe I should have pushed for more?

Richard

 

[Malish]

A colleague has just gone through the process of buying, at every boat he viewed the broker (several of them) gave him a 'view' as to what they though the boat was actually worth which was generally 10% or so below the asking price, I suspect the broker had a similar conversation with the seller too.... before traveling any distance I would extract that conversation from the broker.

 

[jac]

A colleague has just gone through the process of buying, at every boat he viewed the broker (several of them) gave him a 'view' as to what they though the boat was actually worth which was generally 10% or so below the asking price, I suspect the broker had a similar conversation with the seller too.... before traveling any distance I would extract that conversation from the broker.

Any broker worth his salt should know what the room to manoeuvre is from the seller. Equally they should have an idea of the condition of the boat. So a slight discount for mild scratches in the woodwork is one thing, serious neglect involving craftsmen needing to put in lots of work is different.

 

[superheat6k]

Maybe a minority but I'm with you. Not that adding 20% to the asking price expecting a low offer is common.
I too cannot understand people travelling sometimes hundreds of miles to view a boat when they have no serious intention of paying (or even have the finances) anywhere near the asking price.
My boat is for sale and the only viewings I've had are from people who do not even have the money to make a low offer since they have their own boat to sell first. They do not even have the depost.
i'm certainly not going to wait months or even years until their boat is sold.
I have to travel hundreds of miles to show potential buyers my boat which costs me money. I now ensure enquirers are cash buyers and have the finances before even showing them the boat.
It's not all about the buyers, the sellers need some consideration too.
My boat is in commission and being used. Yes I could use a broker but I take pride in my boat - it is my second home and I have personal and valuable things on board so do not want loads of complete strangers going over my boat when I'm not their to look after it.

Whereas I feel for your situation, buying a boat is a cold financial transaction, at least for the sensible it should be, so why should a buyer concern himself with the personal situation of the seller, especially if the seller is being unrealistic with his AP, as is too often the case. Indeed sellers not using brokers in my experience tend to be the worse at establishing the value of their boats - they want maximum price and minimal cost of selling, and get annoyed and indeed restrictive when would be buyers do not appear or simply walk away, yet an effective price and brokered service could sell the boat with the net proceeds to the seller being realistic, and in short order.

I woud respectfully suggest you need to re-read your own post and then ask yourself why you still own it. It does sound like your boat isn't really for sale at all.

As written you infer it is a privilege for someone to buy your boat, (and second home), and at the price you dictate. Indeed you might be quite right, but it seems like you do not have a queue of people beating down the door to throw their cash at you, and you are hardly making your task of selling a simple one - where you live and how you get to show any potential buyer the boat is simply not their problem, and like it or not any non-buyer is a fender kicker, you just do not know which is a serious fender kicker. IMHO Brokers perform an invaluable role, but they need to not only make their living, but often have to 'educate' their clients too.

In my experience of buying and selling at least half a dozen boats I have never had a potential buyer steal anything, which is what you elude could happen. Yes it is your boat but surely your priority here is that it should not be.

 

[Poignard]

(...)

After the test drive I said I would take the car with all the options for cash, now, but the options must be thrown in free. He went off for about 10 minutes then came back and we shook hands.

(...)

I think the drill is that the salesman says he will go and try to persuade his manager to allow him to accept your offer. In fact he goes off and has a smoke. Then he comes back and tells you that the manager is in tears, fearing he will lose his job, but he has persuaded him to let you have the car at the price you offered as a special concession in recognition of your outstanding negotiating skills. You drive away and everyone's happy.

 

[RichardS]

I think the drill is that the salesman says he will go and try to persuade his manager to allow him to accept your offer. In fact he goes off and has a smoke. Then he comes back and tells you that the manager is in tears, fearing he will lose his job, but he has persuaded him to let you have the car at the price you offered as a special concession in recognition of your outstanding negotiating skills. You drive away and everyone's happy.

Exactly so. It's been the same with every car I've ever bought, second-hand and new. And you're right, I'm happy and the dealer is happy. Same with boats.

For some reason the salesman didn't mention his manager but that's very unusual.

Richard

 

[wizzer]

Exactly so. It's been the same with every car I've ever bought, second-hand and new. And you're right, I'm happy and the dealer is happy. Same with boats.

For some reason the salesman didn't mention his manager but that's very unusual.

Richard

Always the same ................

 

[Rafiki]

Cars - my experience having bought two new in the last 15 months is that the 'list prices' have been jacked up to make the finance deals seem cheap/affordable. In one case I got 30% off and in the second case 35%.
Boats - don't be in a hurry to buy. In practical terms it's really too late to buy this year, so make a list of those you would be interested in. Next year see if they are still for sale, and 8 out of 10 will be, and their prices will have come down by 10%, then offer a further 20-30% less than that figure. you will have your new boat in time for next year's heat wave!

 

[jac]

Boats - don't be in a hurry to buy. In practical terms it's really too late to buy this year, so make a list of those you would be interested in. Next year see if they are still for sale, and 8 out of 10 will be, and their prices will have come down by 10%, then offer a further 20-30% less than that figure. you will have your new boat in time for next year's heat wave!

I've been keeping an eye on the boats for sale for about 9months since we first put our former boat on the market. Some are still there now, no movement in price. Others have come an gone reasonably quickly.

If looking, I would start looking around, work out what you really do want and go and see anything that meets those requirements. If it's a good boat then make an offer but don't wait around. It is a buyers market but there are a lot of over priced boats or boats in a poor condition with lots of visible symptoms of being neglected. The good ones at realistic prices are few and far between and are likely to be in demand and will go quickly.

Don't miss out on a good boat by delaying your purchase on the grounds that you might be able to screw the price down by a couple of thousand more in 3 months.

 

[jonic]

Asking Price - Offer Price

65000 GBP 62500 GBP
139950 GBP 137500 GBP
49950 GBP 48000 GBP
169950 GBP 163000 GBP
59000 GBP 45000 GBP
59950 GBP 54000 GBP
44950 GBP 39500 GBP
59950 GBP 55000 GBP
54950 GBP 53000 GBP
91950 GBP 88000 GBP


Folks, there is some utter nonsense written on here by people who have the tiniest sample of experience. I have answered too often on this to answer again, so no more from me on this thread, but above is some REAL data of 10 boats just sold.

Offer price shown is price paid AFTER survey.

There is zero point any broker on no sale no fee over pricing a boat. It won't sell and we pay for the advertising on a daily, weekly and monthly basis. Apart from advertisng costs, in the internet age we are all very short of time, and the time and financial costs of driving two hours each way and spending another couple of hours going through systems with a buyer each morning and afternoon six or seven days a week, who is not buying (or can't buy), will mean you are bust very quickly.

It's ALWAYS a buyers market by varying degrees, but at the moment it is swinging very much toward the seller. (We are running short of stock)

You can pick up "steals" because someone has died, or money is needed quickly, but it is the exception not the rule.

In my experience, over priced boats are often private sales because some sellers don't have access to the actual selling price data or any real or meaningful knowledge of the market fluctuations.

Yachtworld's latest market report is quoting a 15% increase in used sail boat volume sales this year and a 10% increase in total prices paid over the same period last year. Average time to sell is still around 300 days.

(So a call offering 20% off because it's been for sale for 3 months, isn't really going to excite the owner.)

And I have seen too many now, lose a boat they really wanted because they became fixated on getting a particular boat "cheap" even though it was priced (and subsequently sold to another buyer) totally in line with what is a relatively transparent market in the first place.

And for good measure, here are some of ours that went for asking price in 2016 :encouragement:

Sat 30/01/2016 £62,500 £62,500
Thu 11/02/2016 £59,950 £59,000
Sat 26/02/2016 £59,950 £59,950
Thu 26/05/2016 £150,000 £150,000
Wed 17/08/2016 £64,950 £64,950



Caveat - I'm very choosy about what I take on and how I price it

 

[sailaboutvic]

We brought a Moody last year I didn't even go into making an offer , it was price right. For the condion of the boat and I had no plain to upset the guy when in further months I might needed some info for him .
On the other hand we sell our Dufour we had from new privately , she really is a lovely boat fully equied , I researched the prices of other boat its age then I knocked off the cost of having a broker 6% and I also aloud another 5% ,I so I fell she now priced very well , all I seen to get is offers from people who never seen the boat making offers of 20k less then what I have it advertised for , it don't really offends me so much .
I just don't answer the email .
It would be so bad if they at less looked at it first .
Not everone is desperate to give there boat away guys so if you see something that's priced resasonable and it's in good shape think before you make an stupid offer .
There one guy who did look at it but ended up buying a lot older one for less He's now having to have the engine remover after just two months and also having a new set of sail as there are so badly worn , he would had ending up with a lot nicer newer boat for less money with mine , but some can only see what money there paying for a boat and not what it going to cost them in the very near further .
Good luck everyone with buying and selling your boat .
Oh just want to finish off by saying , even thought broker charge Six or seven Present , at time I wonder if it worth paying this so you don't have to deal with some stupid people .

 

[ghostlymoron]

I feel that brokers are being falsely impugned. I've bought and sold through brokers in the past as well as privately and have been satisfied with their performance. They have a much better knowledge of the market than most private buyers and sellers owing to their experience in transactions and often give realistic pricing advice to sellers who frequently think their boat is worth more than similar ones.
Far from overpricing, they tend if anything to underprice as it in their interest to make a quick sale and the difference to their commission is insignificant (same with estate agents).

 

[Rafiki]

You have some very nice boats for sale, and as you say you probably price them right in the first place.
However many sellers are unrealistic about how much their boat their boat has depreciated over ten years without substantial sums being spent on new sails, rigging, engine, instruments, upholstery etc. they then face continued holding costs and worry and faced with another year eventually have to take a substantial reduction.

 

[jac]

I feel that brokers are being falsely impugned. I've bought and sold through brokers in the past as well as privately and have been satisfied with their performance. They have a much better knowledge of the market than most private buyers and sellers owing to their experience in transactions and often give realistic pricing advice to sellers who frequently think their boat is worth more than similar ones.
Far from overpricing, they tend if anything to underprice as it in their interest to make a quick sale and the difference to their commission is insignificant (same with estate agents).

I suspect you may be right there.

When we sold this spring we spoke to 4 brokers. 2 offered lower commission than the one we chose. One was more. The low commission brokers also valued her significantly below the asking price ( by £10k on a £53k boat.) Even paying Jonic his commission and paying for some work that the survey picked up we ended up with more in our bank account than had we gone with the cheapest broker and achieved full asking price.

so whether buying or selling, do your research and act accordingly. If you have a good boat, it will sell, if you have a pile of floating crap, it will struggle. ( and there is a lot of crap out there!!!)

 

[[163233]]

Asking Price - Offer Price

65000 GBP 62500 GBP
139950 GBP 137500 GBP
49950 GBP 48000 GBP
169950 GBP 163000 GBP
59000 GBP 45000 GBP
59950 GBP 54000 GBP
44950 GBP 39500 GBP
59950 GBP 55000 GBP
54950 GBP 53000 GBP
91950 GBP 88000 GBP

From that information, you should expect to finally achieve around 7% below the asking price.