Moodyjim
Well-Known Member
as a Classic Boat?
What do you define
- Thread starter Moodyjim
- Start date
LittleShip
Well-Known Member
Anything wood !
Tom
Tom
cliffordpope
Well-Known Member
Anything made pre-1939.
Anything post-war if it's a design icon, innovative, rare.
Wood>Iron>Steel>Concrete>Plastic
Anything post-war if it's a design icon, innovative, rare.
Wood>Iron>Steel>Concrete>Plastic
Mirelle
N/A
serious attempt follows...
I'll take a shot:
I usually say, "Whatever the owner thinks!" but here is a more serious attempt, which disregards materials and tries to be scientific:
"Any boat that has been good enough, in terms of appearance, sailing qualities, design, materials and workmanship, to have lasted at least 60 years".
This is based on the form of natural selection that operates with boats, whereby good boats are treasured and bad ones are not.
Unfortunately, this definition will only include pre-War boats, at the moment, but give it another quarter century and the Nic 32 will be in there, along with the Waarschip 1/4 tonner, etc.
The Folkboat scrapes in...
I'll take a shot:
I usually say, "Whatever the owner thinks!" but here is a more serious attempt, which disregards materials and tries to be scientific:
"Any boat that has been good enough, in terms of appearance, sailing qualities, design, materials and workmanship, to have lasted at least 60 years".
This is based on the form of natural selection that operates with boats, whereby good boats are treasured and bad ones are not.
Unfortunately, this definition will only include pre-War boats, at the moment, but give it another quarter century and the Nic 32 will be in there, along with the Waarschip 1/4 tonner, etc.
The Folkboat scrapes in...
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Depends
On your outlook.
In cars, Classic is a hugley corrupted term. An Austin A40 Devon or a Vauxhall Cresta were never Classic, but people seem to think so.
A Jaguar SS or a Bentley are nearly always true Classics, but perhaps cars like the Jowet Javelin are, as it introduced so many modern concepts.
In boats it's even more tricky as so many are one-offs. Many wooden boats are not classic, they have merely survived.
But some boats are just so right, so well made and so beautiful that the term Classic seems to suggest itself.
On your outlook.
In cars, Classic is a hugley corrupted term. An Austin A40 Devon or a Vauxhall Cresta were never Classic, but people seem to think so.
A Jaguar SS or a Bentley are nearly always true Classics, but perhaps cars like the Jowet Javelin are, as it introduced so many modern concepts.
In boats it's even more tricky as so many are one-offs. Many wooden boats are not classic, they have merely survived.
But some boats are just so right, so well made and so beautiful that the term Classic seems to suggest itself.
Mirelle
N/A
\"Listed, grade 2\"?
A further difficulty arises. From the outset, cars were intended to be built in quantity; the "one off" motor car is almost unknown outside the area of speed record attempts. Even racing cars have to be "homologated" and every GP team brings three officially identical cars to the track with them.
Not so with boats, where many, probably most, wooden, steel and ferro boats are "one off"s.
I actually think that my boat, which is quite pretty and is the reasonably well built product of a minor designer and a then-new yard, should be "Listed, grade 2" whilst a Fife 8 metre should be "Listed, grade 1", and so on.
A further difficulty arises. From the outset, cars were intended to be built in quantity; the "one off" motor car is almost unknown outside the area of speed record attempts. Even racing cars have to be "homologated" and every GP team brings three officially identical cars to the track with them.
Not so with boats, where many, probably most, wooden, steel and ferro boats are "one off"s.
I actually think that my boat, which is quite pretty and is the reasonably well built product of a minor designer and a then-new yard, should be "Listed, grade 2" whilst a Fife 8 metre should be "Listed, grade 1", and so on.
Moodyjim
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Listed, grade 2\"?
Yes it's tricky really. The owners of old wooden boats claim the high ground even if the qualities are poor but boats like the Rustler/Nicholson/Rival may be considered "modern" classics in their own right, especially when compared with some of the new twaddle that's about. My TR3 is definately a classic but was a quantity production car. The above three were built to earlier "classical" design concepts were they not?
Yes it's tricky really. The owners of old wooden boats claim the high ground even if the qualities are poor but boats like the Rustler/Nicholson/Rival may be considered "modern" classics in their own right, especially when compared with some of the new twaddle that's about. My TR3 is definately a classic but was a quantity production car. The above three were built to earlier "classical" design concepts were they not?
Mirelle
N/A
Re: \"Listed, grade 2\"?
The Peter Brett designed Rustler 32 which became the 34 was a glass version of a boat that did well in the 1956 Channel Race gale.
The Kim Holman designed Rustler 32, which eventually begat the 37, was a GRP version of the North Sea 24
I don't know the immediate antecedents of the Nic 32, but I imagine that they are similar. Certainly the hull form is similar to that of Nicholson-designed wooden boats of the late 50s and early 60's, like the SCOD.
The Peter Brett designed Rustler 32 which became the 34 was a glass version of a boat that did well in the 1956 Channel Race gale.
The Kim Holman designed Rustler 32, which eventually begat the 37, was a GRP version of the North Sea 24
I don't know the immediate antecedents of the Nic 32, but I imagine that they are similar. Certainly the hull form is similar to that of Nicholson-designed wooden boats of the late 50s and early 60's, like the SCOD.
Peterduck
Well-Known Member
Re: Depends
Yes, my own beloved 'Swallow' is one which will never be a classic because it was built as a utilitarian fishing boat, but it has survived since 1917. In 1952 it had a 4' truncated counter and a mizzen mast added, which changed its appearance enormously. However, it pleases my eye in ways that most modern yachts never will, but here we get into the 'eye of the beholder' syndrome. When out sailing [all too rarely, I'm afraid] I get calls of 'Lovely boat!' across the water from someone in an AWB, so it obviously stirs the romantic in others too. When looking through the boatyard at the yacht club, I find that I am drawn to anything with a reasonably long keel, whatever its construction. Then, of course, there are those sensuous Scandinavian beauties, the Dragon and the Tumlare; oh, what a joy to behold! I think that the eye of the beholder has a lot to do with it.
Peter.
Yes, my own beloved 'Swallow' is one which will never be a classic because it was built as a utilitarian fishing boat, but it has survived since 1917. In 1952 it had a 4' truncated counter and a mizzen mast added, which changed its appearance enormously. However, it pleases my eye in ways that most modern yachts never will, but here we get into the 'eye of the beholder' syndrome. When out sailing [all too rarely, I'm afraid] I get calls of 'Lovely boat!' across the water from someone in an AWB, so it obviously stirs the romantic in others too. When looking through the boatyard at the yacht club, I find that I am drawn to anything with a reasonably long keel, whatever its construction. Then, of course, there are those sensuous Scandinavian beauties, the Dragon and the Tumlare; oh, what a joy to behold! I think that the eye of the beholder has a lot to do with it.
Peter.
Moodyjim
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Listed, grade 2\"?
I guess you mean the Rival 32 which became the 34. It actually started as a 31 ! Didn't know about the 56 connection though. My last boat was a 1908 Nobby but I have to confess I prefer the Rival. I am a traditionalist it has to be said, what with the boat, the car and a '65 m'bike. (Not including SWMBO as she may take offence).
I agree with Peterduck too. Lots of folk say the same about the Rival and I keep admiring her lines even if plastic.
I guess you mean the Rival 32 which became the 34. It actually started as a 31 ! Didn't know about the 56 connection though. My last boat was a 1908 Nobby but I have to confess I prefer the Rival. I am a traditionalist it has to be said, what with the boat, the car and a '65 m'bike. (Not including SWMBO as she may take offence).
I agree with Peterduck too. Lots of folk say the same about the Rival and I keep admiring her lines even if plastic.
G
Guest
Guest
It seems to me that the question, and a lot of the answers, assume that being a Classic is a good thing. Well, this being the Classic Boat Forum, I guess they would wouldn't they!
But it seems to me that having a narrow definition of Classic just devalues the word. If many of the greatest yacht designs are not Classics, while many dogs ARE classics just because they are old, then it becomes a bit ambiguous whether the word Classic is a positive label. Unfortunately for the word, there are many brilliant modern yacht designs that have just been out a year or two or three which are difficult to call Classic because they are brand new. But if I were a Classic boat owner, I would be doing my darndest to be associated with them!
But it seems to me that having a narrow definition of Classic just devalues the word. If many of the greatest yacht designs are not Classics, while many dogs ARE classics just because they are old, then it becomes a bit ambiguous whether the word Classic is a positive label. Unfortunately for the word, there are many brilliant modern yacht designs that have just been out a year or two or three which are difficult to call Classic because they are brand new. But if I were a Classic boat owner, I would be doing my darndest to be associated with them!
phanakapan
Well-Known Member
Hi boys- if a folkboat 'scrapes in' then I guess i'm joining your merry throng- just got back into a syndicate so i now part-own a 1950's wooden Folkboat- is this the right place to moan about unreliable Stuart Turner petrol engines, keel bolts and leaks?
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Don`t see the Holman designed Twister mentioned here. Shurely shome mishtake!
Valerie
New Member
Just started reading this . I hadn't thought about it before but have just bought a 1943 Brixham trawler, converted to liveaboard but with working engin. I suppose that would be a classic. Its lovely and just like a cottage inside. Am having trouble finding an insurer any one able to help me?
