What do they teach people these days!!!

[RichardS]

COLREGS exist for a reason; so there is a standard set of rules by which EVERY vessel on the water operates, and thus EVERYBODY knows who has and has not got right of way. If there was not there would be mass confusion and loads of accidents and incidents.

A commercial operator is working for his living; that DOES NOT excuse his from ignoring/breaking the LAW. He has a legal duty as an employer under UK law to abide by the law and that includes COLREGS. Being a regular user of that water he should be even more knowledgeable and therefore aware of where yachts are going to and from, and thus apply the same principle "don't get into the situation in the first place".

As stated, I was NOT the instigator of this situation, he was. The corollary is like saying the car driving down the wrong side of the motorway hit me, but it was my fault for being in his way!

I do not intentionally get in the way of other boats, even if I know I have the right of way. That is non sensical and just not good seamanship.

I'm with you all the way .... but I think that you are wasting your time trying to convince the forumites who presumably drive tripper boats around when they are not keyboarding. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[GHA]

, even if I know I have the right of way. .

Someone has to say it ..

Ain't no such thing as right of way.....

 

[NotBirdseye]

Someone has to say it ..

Ain't no such thing as right of way.....

Unless you're a mega tanker of course.

 

[PilotWolf]

Competent? Incompetent? or just a jerk?

Who knows?
Thing about commercial passenger operators. Don't go scaring the passengers, you are liable to end up on YouTube
Which will not be good for business.
If he keeps acting like a jerk. it will not be good for business. If he is the owner its his business. If he was hired the owner will be less than pleased if he keeps hearing from concerned customers about how the skipper nearly hit some sail boat.

Wish that was the case. Most passengers have no idea..

W.

 

[capnsensible]

I'm with you all the way .... but I think that you are wasting your time trying to convince the forumites who presumably drive tripper boats around when they are not keyboarding. :ambivalence:

Richard

I do sometimes.

And I know the difference between stand on and give way.

Right of way.......duh.

And I know that blaming what people are taught these days is ridiculous.........

 

[SimonFa]

He will have a timetable to stick to. I usually give them a wide berth and enjoy my day.

+1 I try to stay clear of anyone who has a living to make*. They have enough stresses without me adding to them. I also try to stay clear of race areas, mostly because they're more likely to do something stupid in the heat of the moment.


*(I do the same on the roads round here, I'm quite happy to pull over and let tradesmen and women pas, esp if I'm in no rush.)

 

[Babylon]

There was no need for you to enter a situation where col regs would apply. The event need never have happened.
The commercial operator is working to earn his living, he regularly transits this stretch of water, why get in his way?

Your first point is entirely fair, but I don't agree with your second one. Should Mrs Evans be treated aggressively by a commercial driver because she's driving to have tea with her sister whereas he's delivering something?

We should all sail according to the principle that one shouldn't "embarrass" the other vessel, whatever their size or purpose on the water. But boats wind up in the way of other vessels for all sorts of reasons, at which point the ColRegs need to be adhered to by both parties. The fact that a commercial ferry operator is working to earn his living is of no consequence whatsoever. If a local rule says something different then that's different, but I'm not aware this was the case with the OP.

God help thousands of leisure sailors, say on the Solent, if the almost constant traffic of ferries and other commercial vessels didn't stick to the rules, which - in my experience there over fifteen years - they certainly do.

 

[SimonFa]

I was coming into Plymouth at night once, single-handed and exhausted, and came across an unlit small motorboat suffering engine failure, two men and two women aboard, close to, and being taken by the tide towards, the nasties that lie between between Drake Island and the shore to the west (The Bridge?). I came alongside them and they passed me a pathetically short piece of thin string. I was single handed, and there wasn't time to sort out anything better before we'd both be in trouble, so took a turn round a stern cleat, hung on to the short tail, and towed them into the deep water north-ish of the island. Once we were clear of immediate danger, with plenty of space around us, I was chuffed that my separately switched nav lights allowed me to show correct lights for a towing vessel, got a longer towrope out of my locker, and was just in the process of getting that set up between us when one of the tourist boats came bearing down on us, passed horribly close, risking my boat and the tow being thrown hard against one another, and the tourist boat crew bellowed something I didn't quite hear, but certainly didn't sound like a friendly greeting.

Just a thought, and I appreciate you were under pressure ....

As you were single handed perhaps a Sécurité message when you were sorting them out would help? You were both Not Under Command and it would also warn the Coastguard that there's a potential problem for them to deal with?

 

[Biggles Wader]

I was coming into Plymouth at night once, single-handed and exhausted, and came across an unlit small motorboat suffering engine failure, two men and two women aboard, close to, and being taken by the tide towards, the nasties that lie between between Drake Island and the shore to the west (The Bridge?). I came alongside them and they passed me a pathetically short piece of thin string. I was single handed, and there wasn't time to sort out anything better before we'd both be in trouble, so took a turn round a stern cleat, hung on to the short tail, and towed them into the deep water north-ish of the island. Once we were clear of immediate danger, with plenty of space around us, I was chuffed that my separately switched nav lights allowed me to show correct lights for a towing vessel, got a longer towrope out of my locker, and was just in the process of getting that set up between us when one of the tourist boats came bearing down on us, passed horribly close, risking my boat and the tow being thrown hard against one another, and the tourist boat crew bellowed something I didn't quite hear, but certainly didn't sound like a friendly greeting.

Now that would have been worth reporting to the relevant people.

 

[johnalison]

I think that many of us use the term 'right of way' as a kind of shorthand for 'stand-on vessel' without necessarily implying the rights suggested. The disadvantage of this is that it might confuse some newcomers and non-sailors, but with the best will in the world, I expect that we lazy types will continue in our sloppiness.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Personally, I have never had a problem with ferries and I certainly appreciate them as professional sailors and how they are very patient with us play sailors.

I think what we are talking about here are small tripper boats and small localised ferries. Ironically, we are often more restricted by draft than them. Of course we try to keep out of their way wherever possible but crowded summer weekends can be difficult. Often, visiting sailors are unaware of what they are and expect them to behave in accordance with the colregs.

It is in my experience that some seem to have an attitude problem towards us for whatever reason and seem to lack
basic social skills. I do feel we have a duty to contact them in a friendly constructive way just as I would expect them to contact me for being negligent or ignorant. It is quite likely that this may help towards future accidents .

 

[RichardS]

I do sometimes.

And I know the difference between stand on and give way.

Right of way.......duh.

And I know that blaming what people are taught these days is ridiculous.........

The OP had provided a clear description of the situation and a valid analysis of the relevant ColRegs using the correct terminology.

I would vouchsafe that only someone with an inappropriately over-inflated ego would try to make capital out of his later lapse in terminology.

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

The OP had provided a clear description of the situation and a valid analysis of the relevant ColRegs using the correct terminology.

I would vouchsafe that only someone with an inappropriately over-inflated ego would try to make capital out of his later lapse in terminology.

Richard

No dear boy, it would be someone who has spent most of the last twenty years teaching it to people. There is a vaaaast difference, but you know all about egos, eh?

 

[RichardS]

I would vouchsafe that only someone with an inappropriately over-inflated ego would try to make capital out of his later lapse in terminology.

Richard

No dear boy, it would be someone who has spent most of the last twenty years teaching it to people. There is a vaaaast difference, but you know all about egos, eh?

Quod erat demonstrandum. :encouragement:

In its practical implementation, there is very little difference between being "right of way" and being "stand on" .... but that's a lesson for another day and another thread.

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

Quod erat demonstrandum. :encouragement:

In its practical implementation, there is very little difference between being "right of way" and being "stand on" .... but that's a lesson for another day and another thread.

Richard

Oh dear, I'm afraid I'm going to be busy then. What a shame.

 

[steve350]

Your first point is entirely fair, but I don't agree with your second one. Should Mrs Evans be treated aggressively by a commercial driver because she's driving to have tea with her sister whereas he's delivering something?

We should all sail according to the principle that one shouldn't "embarrass" the other vessel, whatever their size or purpose on the water. But boats wind up in the way of other vessels for all sorts of reasons, at which point the ColRegs need to be adhered to by both parties. The fact that a commercial ferry operator is working to earn his living is of no consequence whatsoever. If a local rule says something different then that's different, but I'm not aware this was the case with the OP.

God help thousands of leisure sailors, say on the Solent, if the almost constant traffic of ferries and other commercial vessels didn't stick to the rules, which - in my experience there over fifteen years - they certainly do.

I agree Babylon, once a close quarters situation develops then both parties need to observe the regs. The ferry guy has no dispensation once the rules are in play. My point was that if it's possible to avoid impeding the commercial vessel in the first place then why not do so?
To answer your question regarding Mrs Evans, well of course Mrs Evans should not be treated aggressively by other drivers, regardless of their status. Mrs Evans, perhaps being a considerate and experienced motorist, may choose to defer to commercial drivers in many situations. Slowing down to allow them to pull out of junctions for example. She appreciates that the commercial driver is at work whereas she is merely indulging her latest whim.

 

[Babylon]

...My point was that if it's possible to avoid impeding the commercial vessel in the first place then why not do so...

Steve, I absolutely agree.

My normal motto as skipper is "make life as easy as possible for yourself and your crew", to which ought to be added "and everyone else on the water"!

I think the vast majority in fact try to do exactly this.

 

[RichardS]

Oh dear, I'm afraid I'm going to be busy then. What a shame.

Another learning opportunity for the Good Captain, missed.

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

Another learning opportunity for the Good Captain, missed.

Richard

For me Richard, it would be a training opportunity. For you, a students opportunity to participate in a Masterclass with a true Maestro.

 

[johnalison]

Steve, I absolutely agree.

My normal motto as skipper is "make life as easy as possible for yourself and your crew", to which ought to be added "and everyone else on the water"!

I think the vast majority in fact try to do exactly this.

It often happens that someone describes a situation that led to difficulty and then comes in for a lot of stick from people who weren't there and don't know all the constraints that he was under. Personally, although I have been to Plymouth a few times, I wasn't able to make a full mental picture of the event, including such factors as how fast they were going, how much sea-room they had, the distances involved and so on. If the OP thought that the ferry had acted inappropriatedly, I am happy to take his word for it. I can imaginehow the situation might have arisen, though I can't offhand think of any occasions when I have been inconvenienced by trip boats or ferries. Perhaps it is a local problem.