What conditions would you go out in?

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kilkerr1

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Hiding from the howling wind and rain in the ladies' loos at Dolphin Quay marina Poole Wednesday (25th) evening last week, where we'd run to escape the predicted bad weather (the marina, not the loos...), I overheard the following, which set me to a-thinkin' about what sort of weather conditions different sailors are happy to go out in...

[Possibly middle-aged American woman] Oh my dear, those bruises look nasty! Tough sail?

[Young, probably strapping, English lass] Yeah, we just got in. Set off this morning and arrived half an hour ago.

[US woman] You went out? In this?!

[Lass] Yeah, we're on a tight schedule. If we'd not set off today we'd have to sail a full 12 hours tomorrow.

[US woman] Still, I'd rather sail a 12-hour day than go out in gale force winds.

[Lass] Well we're on a really tight schedule, and there's no guarantee the weather's going to be OK tomorrow. [Pause]. The winds were predicted at a 7 or 8, but we were seeing winds up to a 10. Our sister ship lost her jib!

[US woman] Wow. I'm not surprised!

[Lass] Whatever, we're on a really tight schedule...

I found myself a) agreeing with the American woman and b) thinking exactly how important can a schedule be to risk equipment, boat, life, limb, etc. for? OK, maybe if you're delivering a heart for a transplant by yacht, but I'm not sure this happens very often...The young girl sounded rather proud of her battered arms and the damage to the other yacht, as if this were proof of 'proper' sailing. She was, of course, right that there was no absolute guarantee for better weather the day after, but still...Surely going out when the winds are forecast up to force 8 is not to be recommended and, dare i say it, rather foolhardy..? If you're stuck in the middle of the Atlantic, of course, you aint got much choice, but setting off into the teeth of a gale? The girl seemed happy enough, but not for me thank you, Sirs and Madams...give me a 12-hour force 5-6 sail any day.

Oh those Krazy Kidz, eh?
 
Agree with Steve - other factors to take into account. I do have a golden rule though - and that's not to go out into a gale warning for my sea area!

Schedule, schmedule! Would rather have life and limb - and crew!
 
We only go sailing to enjoy ourselves. Pleasure boating, I believe it is called. So to windward, F5 and more is decidedly avoided, although I do get it wrong sometimes. In sheltered (Solenty) waters, a downwind run in a F6-7 is not a problem, though it is equally avoided where possible, as a downwind course can turn into a beat if something goes wrong.

I always try and remember that the forecast is just a prediction, not a guarantee, and you should allow at least +1 (or -3) to any predicted wind strength "just in case". My worst experience was clearing Barfleur on the way home to find that the predicted F4-5 was actually an F7. That was the quickest channel crossing I've ever made.
 
whilst I totally agree about wind direction being a crucial deision point, so is the type of boat, and experience and capability of a crew.

I have returned from St Peter Port in top end of a 9 - but that was a racing boat with a well worked up crew - even then there were only two of us who were able to helm without causing brooches.

I am happy setting off up to force 7 and even more if not directly upwind, but SWMBO in the crew reduces this to no more than low end of 6
 
For all the talk of different types of boats, crew levels and skills etc. , there are no rules regarding when to leave port or not, other than the one golden rule you should always stick to which is:
Only go out in weather you are comfortable with and take no heed whatsoever of what other boats and crews are doing. That rule applies to all boats regardless of type. if you're happy taking a 40' displacement boat out in a F8 and want to do it, then have a great time. On the other hand if you have some doubts about yourself or crew or boat then simply stay put. It doesn't make you a wimp. Just sensible.
 
Personally I agree with the lass. It's useful to go out in those conditions intentionally (assuming a reasonable degree of competence, and assuming that you've thought about an appropriate refuge if things get too hot) because it gives you confidence in your own abilities and the boat's. As you KNOW that you're going out into those conditions you are much more in control - you can rig inner forestay, reef down appropriately, stowing things away, make themoses of coffee etc. in advance.

Then when you get caught out inadvertently you are much safer because you know what to do, you know the capabilities of your boat, and you know that your equipment (storm sails etc.) are in working order.

Earlier this week for example we set out with a F7-8 forecast with our destination of course dead upwind. We had a brilliant 10 hours beating into it with the spray flying. I don't believe there was anything dangerous in doing this, it was fantastic sailing, we got to our destination instead of being stuck in a rolly harbour, and the g/f has much more confidence about strong winds.

So I'm with the lass on this one. However, I don't agree with the "have to get somewhere on time" part of her argument. That is an argument that can lead to unseamanlike decisions. But there is nothing wrong with stretching yourself from time to time. The difference between whether it was seamanlike or not is unfortunately judged retrospectively - if things went belly up then the behaviour was unseamanlike.
 
sea state more immportant than wind imho. In precious unbangbangable powerboat i suppose over f7 on the nose or over 4-5 metre waves at 15 seconds gets a bit daft as you don't get anywhere. But the same wind or more could easily give much easier sea state.

It was gusting to 55knots in the solent earlier in the year and fine for a solent bash with para tho we didn't make too much headway. I offered to make a cuppa but para didn't want one at the time.
 
Go out in any sea state or wind strength and enjoy it but if it goes bellie up you wont get any thanks or bravery award from either the RNLI or MCA . /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
I wonder why their schedule was so tight? Fine going out in bad weather to gain experience, but this skipper sounds to have moved into the no go area of foolhardiness. The Lass was already suffering minor injuries and we all know how easily the next bruiser can cause serious and disabling injury.

HMCG are well aware that the rush to get home for work is a major factor in a significant number of SAR incidents.

Planning a schedule that demands the boat must sail regardless of the weather is not clever or sensible, and is simply asking for trouble.
 
agree with that too. Going out in rough weather in controlled conditions for experience is educational. Going out in rough weather to make a deadline is not wise
 
A couple of weeks ago I turned back into Barmouth in a NW F6. Sunny, a little bouncy but nothing too bad.

We turned back as we had already been offered the loan of a friends private mooring and it was the fun day the following weekend which we wanted to be part of.

And the wind was on the nose for home, as always! We made seriously slow progress. Other boats returning to Porthmadog carried on as they only had a couple of miles until they received shelter for the approach to PM.

We had the bay to cross, approx 20 miles of it, as the crow flies, also had the tide against us. We were maintaining about 2 - 3 kts COG toward Pwllheli, though the speeds we achieved off the wind were damn fine fun!. We were going to well miss the tide and end up rafted for around 3 hours at Pwllheli waiting for our mooring. Across our path is a long spit, which has an inner or outer passage, the inner was manageable by mono's but we just could not get that close, so our passage was further restricted, maybe 25 to 30 miles to get around it. Can't remember exact figures now. Crossing it in that weather was not negotiable!

It was a little humbling turning back in, the HM remarked later in the week, oh you just didn't like the look of it eh? Noooooo, the decision was based on many things, but the boat and crew were quite happy. Oh right says he.

It is not always easy to turn back and face the looks, we have all seen them. I have nothing to prove, but I sail for fun, if it is a slog, cold, wet, dark, well the fun sort of erodes for me. If people get kicks from that, good on em!

Don't know if I have a point really. I will go out when it suits us, as has been said in the discussion, I will also put back when it suits too. We sailed last year in a low 7 gusting 8, this is not the Solent remember. It was fun, the wind was right, the boat got down in a trough and we made good progress.

There is far too much involved to give this a definitive answer. I would get more use out of the boat in the Solent sure, but at what cost! The one thing I will say about our cruising grounds, the prevailing winds are pretty rubbish for the coastline, dan on the channel you guys to get a little more choice.

yawn, time to stop I think /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
When I picked up "Racylady" last summer we left Cowes in a westerly F6 for Weymouth, after 4/5 hours of punching into wind we decided to pull into Lymington, taking on St albins head was not going to be fun, and that is what its about.
 
Depends

Went out of Ostende, destination Nieuwpoort, so WSW course, with a N onshore force 8. Clear skies, end of september. Crew consisted of three sailing instructors. The exhiliration lasted two and a half hours.

The boat was well prepared from the start: lowest reef, jib n°2, engine on running temperature. Crew were all strapped in, oilies on, safety lines attached.

We were followed out by the port control who gave use some really nasty looks and forced us to keep to the right of channel, even though no shipping was coming in. I guess they were frustrated because they couldn't stop us from going out :-D I can hear the *gasp* already, but I want to keep the freedom where I decide when I can sail out or not.

I have taken the train home and left the boat at a far away port for a week on more than one occassion (Blankenberge and Boulogne spring to mind). And I am more then willing to take a ferry/train back and leave the boat in Ramsgate for a week, if the weather doesn't allow a safe return passage. Not sailing out is one of the hardest decisions to reach as a skipper, and difficult to teach.During a weeks' training, we spend one full evening trying to hammer this in the heads of students, by using copious amounts of beer.
 
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