What charts do we need?

[MarcJ]

Just been reading several threads about the digital v paper charts, I searched looking for info on the detail of Imray charts and whether they would be sufficient in detail to day sail around the west Wales coast.
Recap on where I'm coming from! Myself and my partner are planning on a couple of weeks of sailing from somewhere such as Aberdovey at the end of July. We're newbies to this, although Carolyn is a qualified dinghy instructor and I've got 5yrs plus of sea kayaking.

Do I really need to buy 2 folio's at Admiralty scale charts at £40 each, or will 2 x Imray scale at £16 suffice?

We'll have a 383 Humminbird GPS/depth unit, and I'm going to arm a laptop with as many free software/charts harbour details etc as can be had. Backed up further by my gps phone app. I also have a cheapo tablet that I can use to back up the laptop.

I understand it's a bit like asking "what do you feel comfortable with"! What are those Imray charts like? With the "Larger scale plans of Pwllheli, Aberdovey, Fishguard, Aberystwyth, Cardigan, Aberaeron, New Quay bay, Newport bay, Aberporth, Milford Haven entrance. Tidal stream diagrams." Is there enough info on there to get into the harbour?

I'm busy trying to figure out the electrics it's the boss who made me start thinking about navigation again!

Thanks in advance!
Marc

 

[cryan]

You should have the paper charts for whatever area you intend to sail. Admiralty are probably the best in the world. If your just day sailing in the same area you only need a chart for that area. an almanac is probably a good idea too. All the electrics in the world are no good whatsoever if they fail, paper tends not to fail.

 

[[70521]]

That sir is only a question you can answer.

Personally, I only ever use paper charts and a handheld GPS, as a double check on my navigation and to upload my track onto Google Earth. I prefer Admiralty charts, but have one Imray for long passages in the English Channel.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Imray ones will be fine. They use the same source information as the Admiralty ones, but leave out some detail that is not important to small craft. They have large scale plans of harbours, and that along with the Irish Sea pilot from Imray and a small craft almanac is everything you need.

Watch the tidal stream at Porthmadog, Aberdovey and Barmouth. Move around only near slack water if you are uncertain.

 

[Neil_Y]

You really don't need to buy charts now, just print what you need before you go or have a small printer with you.

I print off charts on A4 paper to a range of magnification/detail to cover a day or a few days sailing. Any harbours or anchorages that might be needed in the event of a problem were printed off in max detail as pilotage charts. These were either laminated or put in plastic sleeves so they could be used in the cockpit. In may ways these were used more than the Imray charts and chart table. GPS's do fail, my experience is just when you need them most. It's realy nice have a passage chart with one A4 showing the whole journey and then extra detail of headlands/narrow passages/harbour entrances easily to hand. A chinograph pencil and you plot as you go in the cockpit to a reasonable accuracy.

 

[nigelmercier]

Imray ones will be fine. They use the same source information as the Admiralty ones, but leave out some detail that is not important to small craft. ...

Having moved over to Imray charts in the last year, I agree. But I also suggest a pilot book for your cruising area.

 

[Iliade]

You really don't need to buy charts now, just print what you need before you go or have a small printer with you.

I print off charts on A4 paper to a range of magnification/detail to cover a day or a few days sailing. Any harbours or anchorages that might be needed in the event of a problem were printed off in max detail as pilotage charts. These were either laminated or put in plastic sleeves so they could be used in the cockpit. In may ways these were used more than the Imray charts and chart table. GPS's do fail, my experience is just when you need them most. It's realy nice have a passage chart with one A4 showing the whole journey and then extra detail of headlands/narrow passages/harbour entrances easily to hand. A chinograph pencil and you plot as you go in the cockpit to a reasonable accuracy.

When planning last year's jaunt to the Isles of Scilly I bought a good quality A3 spiral bound drawing book. (Having an A3 printer helps) Disassembled it, printed a series of memory map admiralty charts at various resolutions etc., then reassembled it. It now stands as a very pleasing log of the trip. (It never left the saloon lest the ink ran...)

For navigation I also had plotters (3 off), Imray charts and current and last years Reeds (last years for cockpit, current for saloon)

IMHO the ability of one's chosen system to survive being dunked in sea water is critical...

 

[jwilson]

Long ago I sailed part of your Welsh cruising range from an upper Bristol Channel base in an 18-footer with no GPS, log or echo-sounder, just a compass and leadline. I used mostly Stanfords charts, which in those days were fold-up ones similar to Imrays, and much cheaper than Admiralty ones, which in pre-"leisure folio" days were all awkwardly big for small boats. They were certainly good enough for Milford, Jack & Ramsay Sounds, and round St. Davids to Fishguard. I also managed to get into Porth Gain, though it was not really properly charted in detail. I drew my own plan for a later visit.

 

[prv]

Do I really need to buy 2 folio's at Admiralty scale charts at £40 each, or will 2 x Imray scale at £16 suffice?

The Imray ones will be fine.

Do make sure you download the corrections from the Imray site - preferably apply them all to the chart, but at least have a look through to check for any that may be significant to you.

(The same would apply if you'd bought Admiralty.)

Pete

 

[MarcJ]

Many thanks for all your thoughts! I suspected the Imray ones would be ok, I'll be sure to get the Irish Sea Pilot and small craft almanac too..

 

[alant]

Just been reading several threads about the digital v paper charts, I searched looking for info on the detail of Imray charts and whether they would be sufficient in detail to day sail around the west Wales coast.
Recap on where I'm coming from! Myself and my partner are planning on a couple of weeks of sailing from somewhere such as Aberdovey at the end of July. We're newbies to this, although Carolyn is a qualified dinghy instructor and I've got 5yrs plus of sea kayaking.Do I really need to buy 2 folio's at Admiralty scale charts at £40 each, or will 2 x Imray scale at £16 suffice?

We'll have a 383 Humminbird GPS/depth unit, and I'm going to arm a laptop with as many free software/charts harbour details etc as can be had. Backed up further by my gps phone app. I also have a cheapo tablet that I can use to back up the laptop.

I understand it's a bit like asking "what do you feel comfortable with"! What are those Imray charts like? With the "Larger scale plans of Pwllheli, Aberdovey, Fishguard, Aberystwyth, Cardigan, Aberaeron, New Quay bay, Newport bay, Aberporth, Milford Haven entrance. Tidal stream diagrams." Is there enough info on there to get into the harbour?

I'm busy trying to figure out the electrics it's the boss who made me start thinking about navigation again!

Thanks in advance!
Marc

Unless you know how to read & navigate from a chart, all else is academic.

Have you thought of going on the basic 2 day RYA course?


PS
Agree with Imray (waterproofed), since ordinary paper & anything electronic is prone to going belly up when in contact with sea water.

 

[MarcJ]

Yes point taken - wouldn't be much use if we didn't know how to use them! We're practising what we learnt on the competent crew course on an inland lake at the mo...

 

[alant]

Yes point taken - wouldn't be much use if we didn't know how to use them! We're practising what we learnt on the competent crew course on an inland lake at the mo...

That's easy, when you hit something green & grassy, turn left/right & continue around the edge.

PS - What nav is on a comp crew syllabus?

 

[MarcJ]

That's easy, when you hit something green & grassy, turn left/right & continue around the edge.

PS - What nav is on a comp crew syllabus?

Yes lets hope it's green and grassy and not grey and lumpy!

Not sure how much is on the course officially. We had a couple of guys on board who were doing their yacht masters and sat in on their coaching. The practical side was mostly pilotage, buoys, transits, taking bearings, steering to bearings etc.. We also got plenty of practise night sailing, in fact 4 out of the 5 nights were spent sailing into the early hours and trying to figure out what all the lights mean!

Edit - here's a link to the syllabus http://www.boss-sail.co.uk/syllabi/practical/competent_crew.htm

 

[ghostlymoron]

I think the Imray charts are fine. I use C51, C52and C61 (I think) plus pilot and PBO Almanac. If you can get a last years Western Almanac from a rich friend, that would be useful also. (obviously not for the tides). Good cruising area BTW.

 

[dunedin]

As well as the paper charts (and plotter) I like having the Navionics app on Android phone. It has full UK coverage for not much money, so a useful backup if you divert beyond your paper chart coverage (cheaper than buying and carrying lots of "just in case" paper)
Also we tend to eat ashore whenever possible (makes a holiday for all), so a lot of next day passage planning options done on phone in the pub.
Add a waterproof case and backup on boat chart plotter as welll

 

[scruff]

Unless you know how to read & navigate from a chart, all else is academic.

Navigation is a doddle; if you can read a map (and you sound like outdoorsy type people so I assume you can), you can read a chart.

Keep off the hard bits and away from the shallow bits and you'll be mostly fine.

 

[lenseman]

Imray are fine as you have been told above and are cheaper than the Admiralty ones.

If you have an Android phone (Samsung Galaxy etc) then a small free "App" called Smart Compass (Smart Tools Co) would be good so that you can practice taking a bearing to fix your position. You can then check against the chart plotter.

Oh; and for chart work, you will need 2B pencils not the standard HB lead which will make holes in the paper. I buy propelling pencils and throw away the leads and buy 2B lead re-fill from e-Bay. These are fine for chart work and never need sharpening.

A Chart plotter is good if you can beg or borrow one?

Another tip. use Google Earth before you go and slowly go round the coastline you intend to travel and look at any and all harbours which have yachts of a similar size to your own. This is a free method of noting 'safe havens' before you need to buy any Wales Pilot books. You can also Google the name of the harbour and see if it turns up any Marinas and again note any information like phone numbers and costs.

When do you sail?



.

 

[MarcJ]

Imray are fine as you have been told above and are cheaper than the Admiralty ones.

If you have an Android phone (Samsung Galaxy etc) then a small free "App" called Smart Compass (Smart Tools Co) would be good so that you can practice taking a bearing to fix your position. You can then check against the chart plotter.

Oh; and for chart work, you will need 2B pencils not the standard HB lead which will make holes in the paper. I buy propelling pencils and throw away the leads and buy 2B lead re-fill from e-Bay. These are fine for chart work and never need sharpening.

A Chart plotter is good if you can beg or borrow one?

Another tip. use Google Earth before you go and slowly go round the coastline you intend to travel and look at any and all harbours which have yachts of a similar size to your own. This is a free method of noting 'safe havens' before you need to buy any Wales Pilot books. You can also Google the name of the harbour and see if it turns up any Marinas and again note any information like phone numbers and costs.

When do you sail?
.

Thanks all good tips! And thanks to all the really informative replies - have been over to the boat this weekend sussing out where all the electrics are going to live, I've got 4 days next week to get (I hope) the majority of that done.

(Got another couple of queries going on - jib furling systems, we played with a dinghy one we were given today, and some little square ended thing that turns the boom over that we, well I! dropped overboard )

We've got 2 weeks booked at the end of July. Not decided where to start from, although the first few days will be sailing around wherever we launch from. I haven't had time to do full research yet - need to get comparison costs for the harbours from Holyhead down to New Quay area. Aberdovey is the nearest, but we'll see, it'll depend on the weather forecast too, not adverse to towing to find shelter for the first week.

 

[sam_uk]

As well as the paper charts (and plotter) I like having the Navionics app on Android phone. It has full UK coverage for not much money, so a useful backup if you divert beyond your paper chart coverage (cheaper than buying and carrying lots of "just in case" paper)

I agree. In my view you should obviously have the basic paper charts.

If you don't already have a android phone it could be well worth it. You can get a waterproof Motorola Defy on ebay for £80 which is the same as you were considering on the paper chart upgrade..

I'm not saying you shouldn't learn and use paper charts. I'm also a relative newbie and I think some kind of GPS with charts will make you feel much safer if the fog comes down.

You won't be much out of phone coverage with the kind of sailing you are planning, so it provides an additional channel to call for help if you have a problem with your boat electronics.

The Navionics app is great, you can get tide height and current information from it too.

In addition you can then install the (free) windguru app and get good weather forecasts, updated every couple of hours so you can check it whilst on passage & see if predictions are getting worse.

You can also install the (free) anchor watch app so you get a alarm if your anchor is dragging.

You can also install the (free) marine traffic app so you can see where all the big ships are (in phone coverage area's only)