What Chain?

[onesea]

No choice of anchor SWMOB has decided…. Fortress FX16

35’ 4.2t boat no anchor windlass, mainly lunchtime anchoring but certainly not afraid to overnight… In fact make that 50/50 considering overnight is normally 12 hours and lunch is only 1 or 2.

This will be our main anchor she (quite understandably IMHO) just does not like the CQR’s that came with the boat. For her they are to big and heavy for me its bad experiences.

Now this leaves the question of chain, what size and how much?

I am thinking 2m draft lunchtime beach stops tidal range 2m UKC 1m = 5m normal ish lunchtime stop.

So 3 x 5= 15m Chain should I make it 20m?

Overnight or places with larger tidal range will have to use rope as well.

The question is what size chain, being old school heavy is best I would say 10mm but….

15m x 10mm = 32kg dry.
15m x 8mm = 20.25 kg dry

I could always do a combination:
8m x10mm =16.8 kg 7m x 8mm = 9.45 Total:25 kg

Then it becomes what weight of chain? Schedule 40 or 70?

So many combinations does anyone have a catenary calculator for this size gear?

If not just wet and dry weights for chains and ropes I think I can coble one together.

As far as I can see rope is rope Nylon 12 or 14mm Multi strand Swivel shackle to anchor chain and as much as is practicable 150m?

My prime consideration is I should be able to lift the whole lot dry without too much of a fight say 35-40kg??.

 

[Tranona]

Probably better to buy a windlass and use a different anchor! At the risk of starting the usual anchor arguments, for a main anchor a 16kg Delta and a windlass would be a better starting point for ease of handling and good setting/holding.

Anyway whichever you choose then 8mm chain is the correct size. All chain minimum of 50m. Chain/rope 20+50 14mm warp spliced into chain would be reasonable.

 

[vyv_cox]

No argument with any of Tranona's post. I used a 16 kg Delta with 50 metres of 8 mm chain but no windlass for several years. Hard work sometimes but sound anchoring.

 

[GrahamM376]

No argument with any of Tranona's post. I used a 16 kg Delta with 50 metres of 8 mm chain but no windlass for several years. Hard work sometimes but sound anchoring.

Can't disagree with either of the above posts. I would add though that having a windlass transforms anchoring from a chore to pleasure - no more bad back problems.

 

[BobnLesley]

Why don't you lift it whilst SWMBO helms?

 

[VicMallows]

Why don't you lift it whilst SWMBO helms?

No real problem lifting it by hand with noone on the helm. Just takes a bit longer and a few trips back and forth.

Vic

 

[alahol2]

That seems a very light boat?

 

[onesea]

Probably better to buy a windlass and use a different anchor! At the risk of starting the usual anchor arguments, for a main anchor a 16kg Delta and a windlass would be a better starting point for ease of handling and good setting/holding.

Anyway whichever you choose then 8mm chain is the correct size. All chain minimum of 50m. Chain/rope 20+50 14mm warp spliced into chain would be reasonable.

No argument with any of Tranona's post. I used a 16 kg Delta with 50 metres of 8 mm chain but no windlass for several years. Hard work sometimes but sound anchoring.

Can't disagree with either of the above posts. I would add though that having a windlass transforms anchoring from a chore to pleasure - no more bad back problems.

Why don't you lift it whilst SWMBO helms?

No real problem lifting it by hand with noone on the helm. Just takes a bit longer and a few trips back and forth.

Vic

FIRSTLY I DID NOT ASK ABOUT ANCHORS

I only mentioned the type in case some one supplied any real horror stories. All I can read about fortresses is very good and as my next choice would be Danforth or other spade design....

If I suggested a delta to SWMOB she would say its a plough why change?

SWMOB likes to to be able to do these things, she thinks important she can do these things. If there is not to much weight she likes to do these things. Before long she will be sailing when I am at work

We would go for a modern Spade style anchor Ronca or similar but without anchor windlass its difficult to lift over bow and stow.

As for Anchor Windlass £700 pounds plus all that weight staying forward.
As SWMOB pointed out we loose 1/2 knot when I go forward to prepare the mooring ropes. Why would we want to loose that speed for an anchor weight in the wrong position?

Any suggestions or reasonable reasons not to have a Fortress please post.

As for a light boat, yup an early raceing machine would like to keep her light, fast, basic and less maintainance .

 

[machurley22]

FIRSTLY I DID NOT ASK ABOUT ANCHORS

...Any suggestions or reasonable reasons not to have a Fortress please post.

Well did you or didn't you?

 

[ukmctc]

windlass 8-10mm gypsy new £400
chain to fit gypsy all the way 60 mtrs £150
Anchor Delta type 16kg hold most anywhere £49

Go to BGD all delivered to the boat.

 

[ukmctc]

FIRSTLY I DID NOT ASK ABOUT ANCHORS



As SWMOB pointed out we loose 1/2 knot when I go forward to prepare the mooring ropes. Why would we want to loose that speed for an anchor weight in the wrong position?

.

1/2 knot! wow......that'll make a differnce to getting in a berth or on a mooring....NOT.
I don't think for that loss of speed you need to worry about it.

 

[sailorman]

FIRSTLY I DID NOT ASK ABOUT ANCHORS

I only mentioned the type in case some one supplied any real horror stories. All I can read about fortresses is very good and as my next choice would be Danforth or other spade design....

If I suggested a delta to SWMOB she would say its a plough why change?

SWMOB likes to to be able to do these things, she thinks important she can do these things. If there is not to much weight she likes to do these things. Before long she will be sailing when I am at work

We would go for a modern Spade style anchor Ronca or similar but without anchor windlass its difficult to lift over bow and stow.

As for Anchor Windlass £700 pounds plus all that weight staying forward.
As SWMOB pointed out we loose 1/2 knot when I go forward to prepare the mooring ropes. Why would we want to loose that speed for an anchor weight in the wrong position?

Any suggestions or reasonable reasons not to have a Fortress please post.

As for a light boat, yup an early raceing machine would like to keep her light, fast, basic and less maintainance .

Dyslexia rools KO

 

[vyv_cox]

. All I can read about fortresses is very good

Any suggestions or reasonable reasons not to have a Fortress please post.

I suggest you need to do a little more research. It is widely stated that Fortress anchors have a problem resetting when the tide turns. This has happened twice to me and I will not anchor on mine overnight. It is an excellent kedge but as a bower? No thanks.

 

[alahol2]

As an example. On our 32ft cat (similar weight, probably greater windage) we used 20m of 8mm chain + 50m of 14mm octoplait spliced on. We used that combination for 10 years plus in coastal waters and it always proved perfectly adequate. Only if it was very blowy or deeper than average did we get to use the rope.
In view of the reports about (non) resetting at tuirn of tide I would not have used a Danforth type anchor, we used a Delta.

 

[Tranona]

Any suggestions or reasonable reasons not to have a Fortress please post.

As for a light boat, yup an early raceing machine would like to keep her light, fast, basic and less maintainance .

As Vyv says a Fortress (or similar design anchor) is not at its best as a main anchor particularly in tidal waters.

I was just trying to suggest that maybe the basis for your choice of ground tackle does not have the right priorities.

Surely the starting point is what is the best design of anchor for general anchoring and then how is it best to deploy and handle it. A modern plough type anchor (like the Delta, but there are of course many others) is perhaps the best general purpose anchor and in the size that you need for your boat it is easily handled with a windlass and adequate all chain or mixed rode.

If you are convinced that the Fortress is your preferred choice, you need to recognise its limitations and that the choice of chain/rope will be the same.

 

[Allan]

windlass 8-10mm gypsy new £400
chain to fit gypsy all the way 60 mtrs £150
Anchor Delta type 16kg hold most anywhere £49

Go to BGD all delivered to the boat.

£49? Should that read £149? RRP £169.
Allan
PS I agree with the comments about 16kg although I only have 40m of 8mm chain.

 

[Tranona]

£49? Should that read £149? RRP £169.
Allan
PS I agree with the comments about 16kg although I only have 40m of 8mm chain.

The key is in the phrase "Delta type" - there are cheap copies around at that price.

 

[CreakyDecks]

Apologies, but I can't read that SWMOB without visualizing this guy skippering a boat.

 

[onesea]

1/2 knot! wow......that'll make a differnce to getting in a berth or on a mooring....NOT.
I don't think for that loss of speed you need to worry about it.

Lets say all that weight on the bow makes 1/4Knt difference that's a mile on a 4 hour passage. The boat is presently very much fresh from racing and although no longer a winning design we would like to keep her to her original concept to a greater extent.
Her design is also such that a windlass would need strengthening chain lockers etc. We may still have an eye on racing her, but she is a compromise we wanted a fun, fast boat without to much domestic stuffs to go wrong.

I suggest you need to do a little more research. It is widely stated that Fortress anchors have a problem resetting when the tide turns. This has happened twice to me and I will not anchor on mine overnight. It is an excellent kedge but as a bower? No thanks.

As Vyv says a Fortress (or similar design anchor) is not at its best as a main anchor particularly in tidal waters.

I was just trying to suggest that maybe the basis for your choice of ground tackle does not have the right priorities.

Surely the starting point is what is the best design of anchor for general anchoring and then how is it best to deploy and handle it. A modern plough type anchor (like the Delta, but there are of course many others) is perhaps the best general purpose anchor and in the size that you need for your boat it is easily handled with a windlass and adequate all chain or mixed rode.

If you are convinced that the Fortress is your preferred choice, you need to recognise its limitations and that the choice of chain/rope will be the same.

If I was that convinced I would not of asked the forums

Presently the anchor is stowed under the berth in the main cabin and would take both of us to get it and the chain on deck. Without damaging us or the boat, this needs to change.

We are looking to compromise, keep the chain and anchor in a basket below the forward hatch. So we can lift a basket on deck and have the rope come out of another basket kept below.

With regard to resetting I have sailed with Danforths most of the time and never had a problem. There is a proviso or 2 here:
1) We have always had all chain rode,
2) If overnighting we normally extended to 4-1,
3) If weather was up we would ensure we would check her as the tide turned. Its been so well drilled into me I get up when the tide turns regardless of weather (it normally a great time to be up, "no love I will be down in a minute, just going to wait for the tide to turn. Can you pass me up the remains of the Whisky/ Rum/ Wine coffee?") .
4) I was also taught never to use astern to set the anchor in, walk it to the bottom extend to 2 1/2 WD on deck, wait till she is being brought up, then put 3-1 in water and check she is brought up (I believe the logic is that once it has a grip it will carry on digging. Dig it in 2 far and by the time the forces are great enough to turn it will never reset).

I am not saying I am right defiantly right (Again if I thought I was I would not ask here) but hope you can understand where and why we are trying to reach a compromise. Light enough to lift but powerful enough to hold, in normal conditions.

What would you guys say to the idea of:
1) Keeping the big old CQR down low in the middle of the boat (where weight should be) with its 10m of chain and however much rope as a "hurricane anchor".
2) Then get the Fortress as an every day anchor with the knowledge as the tide turns or there is weed we need to be careful.

Most of our anchoring is done in winds under F5, I am not in the game of sleepless nights worrying about a boat. There are normally enough marinas around if the weather pipes up.

If we get caught short and the weather turns foul and we can piggy back anchors or lie to two or what ever.

And as for the post title 20mx8mm of Chain followed by 50m+ of rope sounds to be the consensus?

 

[GrahamM376]

If we get caught short and the weather turns foul and we can piggy back anchors or lie to two or what ever.

Our CQR now lives in the locker as a spare but, before the Manson, we used to shackle the Fortress to the tripping eye of the CQR with about 10ft of chain and it never budged.