What catamaran should we buy?

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goeasy123

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We're currenlty sailing a 'proper' sail boat... Najad 400. My wife says she would be happier on a cat. So, to keep the dream alive I'm considering a switch to a liveaboard cat for two. I.e. not a preformance cat, something that will carry a bit of weight, not one of those production boats that fall apart after a few years and not too old. What's the current thinking on good candidates?
 
goeasy123 said:
We're currenlty sailing a 'proper' sail boat... Najad 400. My wife says she would be happier on a cat. So, to keep the dream alive I'm considering a switch to a liveaboard cat for two. I.e. not a preformance cat, something that will carry a bit of weight, not one of those production boats that fall apart after a few years and not too old. What's the current thinking on good candidates?
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Have you both spent some time on a Cat because I had the same view, right until I did spend some time on one. 2 weeks on a Leopard (don't buy one - a completely pile of cr@p) and 1 week on a Lagoon better than the Leopard but honestly, quite rolly and a pig to sail.
 
Do you want a luxury home on the water or do you want to sail? Do you have a budget in mind (Outremer or Dazcat at £1-2M will be lovely for either option) I have only ever sailed cats. I would never touch a Leopard or a Lagoon and it would have to be free to get me on a Fontaine Pajot (ok not quite that bad but very cheap) . Many of the new brands (HH etc) look great but seem to have a lot of teething problems and many of the charter brands have quality issues but there are some good ones but an idea of use, budget and sailing preferences would make it easier to recommend a few to look for.

I've worked on many different makes of cats (I was based next door to a large multihull dealer so did lots of upgrades and refits etc) so happy to give any advice if you have a "field" in mind. Feel free to PM if you prefer
 
I’ve never sailed old cats but have sailed newish Lagoons and Leopards including on cross-Atlantic and the Lagoon was immeasurably better in every way.
 
I didn't want to influence opinions so I didn't mention any names in my original post, but I'm afraid you're reinforcing my bias'. I've sailed on Lagoons and FP. They were s*** in all respects. In the main, they're not built to last and a nightmare to rebuild/refit. RupertW, that an interesting observation. I can't imagine anything worse than a Lagoon.... but only from my experience. That puts Leopard out??

Outremers, Dazs and any other performance cats won't carry weight. If you load them as a liveaboard you finish up with no-performance, little space and a high price.

The youtuber's exeriences with 'buy-new', including HH suggests don't buy new. And the depreciation from new is precipitious for any cat brand.... not buying new.

What about Balance and Nautitech or similar?
 
Leopard are in many warranty wrangles with buyers and the quality look appalling - I wouldn't actually get on a newly built one to cross the harbour.

With regard to weight - it depends again how many aboard , how much weight etc but many Outremer and Dazcats are cruised successfully and still sail well if you are say only a couple on a 40-50 foot boat.

Broadblue made some good boats quality wise and they are built as cruisers - so will carry weight but no dagger boards and slower but still with a good turn of speed. There is a nice second hand 55 foot at Multihull world at £925K right now that had an extensive refit for an ARC and then was put back on the market . I've sailed on that one and it will do 22 knots in 18-20 of true wind and for a couple would carry all the toys without hassle. But its almost a million and its 55 foot long and too wide for many marinas..

The Nautitech 40 seems universally loved by owners - I've met two or three experienced owners now and all professed to love the boat and never want to change it for anything else - quite quick, well built (now) and pretty too. Or of course you can look older like the bigger Prout's and refit to suit (which I did with a Quasar 50; nothing original but the hull now and solidly built and will do 14-18 knots quite happily )
 
goeasy123 said:
I didn't want to influence opinions so I didn't mention any names in my original post, but I'm afraid you're reinforcing my bias'. I've sailed on Lagoons and FP. They were s*** in all respects. In the main, they're not built to last and a nightmare to rebuild/refit. RupertW, that an interesting observation. I can't imagine anything worse than a Lagoon.... but only from my experience. That puts Leopard out??

Outremers, Dazs and any other performance cats won't carry weight. If you load them as a liveaboard you finish up with no-performance, little space and a high price.

The youtuber's exeriences with 'buy-new', including HH suggests don't buy new. And the depreciation from new is precipitious for any cat brand.... not buying new.

What about Balance and Nautitech or similar?
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I wouldn't climb on a Leopard again, if I was paid money... lots of money.
 
If you are experienced with a monohull, consider why, in detail you want to change to a catamaran. For instance, a few reasons other poeple use are. Much less suffering from sea sickness. Stability at sea or anchor ... no hot coffee etc flung on your lap. Wide foredeck for sail and anchor work. Guest separation. Safety, unballasted ultimately, upside down on the surface is far better than right side up on the sea bed. Space to breath. Heel free cooking and eating.

Personally I sailed a smallish Prout Quest 31 for five years in the Med, Atkantic. Caribbean and USA coast. I have since upraded to a Prout 37 Snowgoose elite. go anywhere go anytime and in comfort. Ask why other people chose a catamaran and choose the catamaran that aligns with your expectations.

PS, An older Prout can often avoid cat marina excess charges because narrower beam. Also my Prouts can tour the European canals.
 
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I've no idea now what to do with my Leopard powercat, after reading this thread. Obviously it would be completely reckless of me to ever use it again. I could consider selling it, or giving it away free, but I'm worried I'd be criminally liable if anything went wrong in the future.
 
Irish Rover said:
I've no idea now what to do with my Leopard powercat, after reading this thread. Obviously it would be completely reckless of me to ever use it again. I could consider selling it, or giving it away free, but I'm worried I'd be criminally liable if anything went wrong in the future.
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Don’t put up too much sail in a F8 - probably not an issue due to lack of mast?

Don’t cross any Oceans - perhaps might run out of fuel anyway?

Go boating :-)
 
We never had the budget for any cat so it was never an option for us. Never sailed on one, but many of our friends have cats so we've been able to form a few opinions.
As a living space, most of them are superb. Indoor-outdoor seamless space, fly bridge for sundowners while the kids go nuts on the trampoline. 4kw of solar isn't uncommon. It's all good
Sailing wise... it really seems to vary.

Catana- owners seem to love them. A friend is spending the best part of a year rebuilding his hurricane damaged one, despite the complexity of a cored hull. He is clearly very attached to it. Other friends crossed the Atlantic with their family and had no troubles.

Lagoon- the most common. Build problems are well documented. I've heard that the smaller ones are embarrassingly slow, especially upwind.

Bali- there are hundreds of them around and they are all in charter fleets. Nobody seems to choose them to own and live on.

FP- seem to be a slight cut above Lagoon, I've not heard of as many build issues.

Outremer- not been aboard one, they aren't so popular with family cruisers. Maybe it's a price or load carrying issue.

Leopard- friends had a very bad experience with structural failure mid Atlantic.

Nautitech- a few friends have Open 40s and seem to like them. One such friend is a seasoned ocean racer at a very high level (came close to putting together a Vendée campaign a few years back), so he knows what he's doing and he knows how to sail, and the Open 40 was what he chose.
They definitely have a bit less space than a similarly sized Lagoon or FP.

Broadblue- might be a one off but the only person I know with one has had structural problems caused by sailing in strong conditions.
 
Edel Cat, just to throw another one in the mix. And Darren would be most upset to know people think his boats won’t carry a couple of tons. They certainly will. You may lose a bit of speed, but the same is true of all boats, though clearly multis are more affected. A Dazcat starts off with such an edge it’ll still be the fastest livaboard. Outremar, the hulls are a bit lower volume so whilst I have no hands on experience of one, it’s a reasonably sure prediction they’ll lose a bit more, though again, where they start from is so far removed from you FPs, Lagoons and Broadblues that I can’t see that being a problem. Cats come with some compromises, as do monos. They’re different compromises, you have to adapt to them. Sailing a cat, you start to watch the weight of your clutter. A tender that’s 5kg lighter? A good start. Using your watermaker more and having less in the tanks. Of course if you buy the right cat, you won’t use as much fuel as you can sail more. We’ve been multi sailors for 40 years now, not Iiveaboard, but a lot of miles, and a lot of cruising and racing. I can no longer imagine living life on my ear.
 
Not knowing your budget makes it difficult to know what to suggest. Personally, I had a 2002 Privilege 435 and lived aboard, and circumnavigated, with just my wife as crew. Probably still a better boat today even after 20 years than anything built by the big manufacturers. Easy to sail by a couple, tough as old boots, nice wood interior (although the wood is easily damaged if hatches are left open and moisture gets behind the veneer).
 
For long term live aboard cruising my preference would always be for a catamaran. To me the overriding criteria are those of comfort, stability and safety. I owned a Broadblue 385 for some ten years. I sailed Biscay and coast of Portugal to the Med’ where I spent eight years pottering, mainly in Greek waters. I did my fair share of heavy weather sailing during that period with never any anxiety as to the vessel’s seaworthiness. I remember that I had three free standing table lamps dotted around the deck saloon and never found a need to restrain them. The galley was always fully useable regardless of point of sailing as were the heads and showers. No lee cloths necessary on bunks either.
In practice cruising cats are not significantly faster than an equivalent length mono. I used to passage plan for a 5 knot average speed. Going to windward in a multihull can also be a bit noisy with crashing and banging noises from wave interaction but the table lamps will still stay in place because heeling is minimal. I now have a monohull but to be honest three or four hours beating to windward is more than enough thank you.
So to put any emphasis on speed or windward performance is to miss the whole point of the joy of multihull cruising. Particularly when it is considered that the vessel will spend most of its time at anchor, resolutely upright and without rolling. Oh, and the view from a bridge deck saloon is far superior to that of a monohull’s cabin.
Advice? Find yourself a nice Prout Snowgoose and give it a try. If you don’t like it you’ll doubtless get your money back anyway. What’s to loose?
Mike
 
If you want a boat to liveabord, you'll spend more time at anchor or in a Marina, not crashing to windward.
Bridgedeck clearance is an issue with some of the older cats.
Choice is about where you want to be/go, how much you have to spend, how many folk you want aboard and for how long.
I have just sold my Commanche after 25 years, under £100k and many happy comfortable miles at 6+ kts. - But you can spend much more.
 
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