What Big things can go wrong with a 30year old GRP Yacht?

najsmith

najsmith

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Ok - this is likely simple (everything) or minutia (washboard lock) type responses, but I need your help.

We're considering upgrading from a 37 year old 28ft Sail boat we've owned for 11 years, to a 30 year old 33/34ft GRP. I'm trying to remind myself what are the expensive jobs that I could expect on an 33/34ft older boat (mid 80's GRP), that we shouldn't expect on a more modern production yacht (late 90's early 2000). I'm thinking about the stuff that is structural/mechanical/engineering - what would stop us sailing - Saggy headlining and tired internal woodwork I can live with :)

Here are my thoughts so far... you can share how likely you think it is too :)

* New engine - 7-10k
* New Standing Rigging ~2k
* Chain plate movement/reinforcement ~2-3K
* Keel Bolt replacement? (we're considering bildge which could double the bill here)
* Osmosis/Epoxy Treatments - Who knows, but epoxied boat should elevate main concerns
 
Some things may still be serviceable after thirty years but you will want to change them anyway- e.g. instruments, or an old gas cooker without flame failure.
Deck gear such as winches, windlass, or furlers may be pretty tired.
 
It depends on what make and model the 30 year old boat is. There will be a difference between a Bavaria and a Moody or HR for instance.

30 year old Bavarias, are reputed to be very well built. So past reputation needs to be considered for the period in question. Moody for instance switched main designers at about that time.
 
I see you didn't get much response on the MOA website which is a surprise.

If my 28 year old Moody 31 is anything to go by then Osmosis and keel bolts won't be an issue. My engine is still going strong but the 346 has a different engine. Depends how it has been looked after. Populer replacement is a Beta 35.
Not heard that chain plates are an issue.
 
najsmith said:
Most likely candidates are Moody 346 built by Marine Projects Plymouth ~1987
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Mild steel fuel tanks, leaky windows, chain plates and fittings. Keel bolts may look messy but unlikely to need to be changed. Just have to recognise that most things wear out or get obsolete, so you just have assess the boat on its merits, including a survey to hopefully spot any real nasties you miss on your inspection.

Although some boats do have well known potential defects, most don't so the same basic rules apply.
 
Friends had an early 80s Moody 34. The fridge was a problem voraciously consuming amp hours faster than anticipated. Led to a near windless beat into Dartmouth at dead of night with no power available. It also shredded coolant pump impellors. But this was when it was only about 15 years old. So I guess those sort of problems would be well under control for a later boat albeit another 15 years older.

I guess wheel steering, particularly any normally inaccessible runs and linkages could be a problem, also rudder hangings or bearings. Hatches, seals and hinges. Gooseneck. Deck hardware eg clutches. Compass with a bubble. Autohelm. As already said I think, a surveyor would have a pretty good list of likely items...
 
Plumbing system (incl. seacoks, hoses, pumps etc), electrical system, the rudder itself and its component (chain, cables etc), sails if still original.
 
Given a good survey and perhaps an engine condition report I think some of your worries are maybe misplaced. I see what you are getting at though.

I agree with the two suggestions above; windows are a pain to re-bed and expensive if done professionally. Moody persisted with mild steel tanks far longer than was sensible and even if they are ok now they will fail in the end. I have no idea about the 346 but replacement in some boats can involve expensive structural work and/or the removal of the engine.
 
Electrics / electronics.

Not sure about the construction, but anything with a balsa core (e.g. deck) there is a real risk of saturation and rotten / disintegrated core leading to soft decks.
 
doug748 said:
Given a good survey and perhaps an engine condition report I think some of your worries are maybe misplaced. I see what you are getting at though.

I agree with the two suggestions above; windows are a pain to re-bed and expensive if done professionally. Moody persisted with mild steel tanks far longer than was sensible and even if they are ok now they will fail in the end. I have no idea about the 346 but replacement in some boats can involve expensive structural work and/or the removal of the engine.
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A friend has replaced his fuel tank without much difficulty. I'd forgotten about that possibility as mine came with a SS tank. Engine access on the 346 is great but he did (at his wife's insistence) re-engine and the old one came out fairly easily by removed the cockpit floor panel (and he sold it for £800).
 
doug748 said:
Given a good survey and perhaps an engine condition report I think some of your worries are maybe misplaced. I see what you are getting at though.

I agree with the two suggestions above; windows are a pain to re-bed and expensive if done professionally. Moody persisted with mild steel tanks far longer than was sensible and even if they are ok now they will fail in the end. I have no idea about the 346 but replacement in some boats can involve expensive structural work and/or the removal of the engine.
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Moody 34/346 fuel tanks are in the cockpit locker and can be removed fairly easily. Keel stud nuts will look rusty and trying to unscrew them will remove studs as well which isn't a problem and easy enough to replace DIY. Chainplates have failed on a few Moodies, due to lack of maintenance in resealing where they go through the deck so check for any deck movement around shroud bases.
 
Kelpie said:
Some things may still be serviceable after thirty years but you will want to change them anyway- e.g. instruments, or an old gas cooker without flame failure.
Deck gear such as winches, windlass, or furlers may be pretty tired.
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Maybe if you feel compelled to change things simply because they are 30 years old you won't be happy with a yacht of that age. I only change things that need changing - I have a 40 year old Class A/B amplifier at home that still works fine so a 30 year old depth sounder which works is not an issue - neither is Flavel Vanessa until can't get new parts. Lots of stuff including Blakes seacocks may well be perfectly serviceable
Winches may have surprisingly little wear on the gears but springs and pawls usually need changing. 30 year old engines can still have lots of life left in them. You will probably have to change some of the plumbing because the stuff they used then eventually goes hard and loses its flexibility. Funny no-one mentions sails!
 
bbg said:
anything with a balsa core (e.g. deck) there is a real risk of saturation and rotten / disintegrated core leading to soft decks.
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A real, but rather small risk? It's not something that happens suddenly, so it should be obvious (at least to a surveyor) whether there are any problems that will need attention in the near future, and if so what the extent of them is.

Unless the whole deck is springy, any repair needed is likely to be localised. A localised repair is fairly simple in itself, the difficulty is usually acccess. One is either working from below (generally a nightmare) to keep the surface of the completed repair out of sight, or working from above, where matching the colour and texture of the existing deck is a highly skilled and sometimes time consuming job. On a 30 year old boat some owners may be willing to work from the top and forego an exact match to bring the job within the budget and skills available.
 
If you are thinking of a bilge keeler, if its been on the ground every tide, then the keels stubs will be seriously fatigued. Some get re built several times in their life!
 
I have just fully refitted a 1984 Nauticat 43. Without going into the detail (which I am happy to share if Nyon is interested) some observations that might help the OP.

-. Look hard for the real reason the owner is selling his 30year old yacht. There may be a major issue that he doesn't have the money or enthusiasm so sort out. Mine was leaking keel bolts under the mild steel water tanks.
- once you start on major surgery, you will always see other stuff that needs doing. I found a useful rule that each job uncovered 3 more that were more pressing and expensive,. Eventually I stopped and replanned for a major overhaul,
- standing rigging and full mast survey should be on your list.
- teak decks are a ticking timebomb. Hopefully this won't need replacing, but after 30 years, will be quite marginal.
- mild steel tanks will be rusting in the corners after 30 years and you need to plan to replace them.
- keel bolts need inspection at the very least and look for signs of movement or leaks (weeps or staining around the join when the boat was stood out of the water was my tell tale).
- if you are employing trades and contractors, you get much better focus and attention from them from May onwards as they are quieter in the summer. Yes you lose a season sailing, but you have long days and hopefully better weather, and a better deal from the yard.

Puggy
 
I recently bought a 30 year old Westerly and was really lucky in that previous owners had largely rectified all the generally expected problems. The headlining had been replaced, the floorboards had been replaced. The boat had been epoxied from new so was absolutely dry as shown by the survey. The engine is so clean it looks like new even though it is original. I did have to replace the sails though.
You may be lucky. Look carefully and be prepared to walk away from a boat that needs too much doing to it. There are plenty of boats out there and as usual most are over priced.
 
najsmith said:
Ok - this is likely simple (everything) or minutia (washboard lock) type responses, but I need your help.

We're considering upgrading from a 37 year old 28ft Sail boat we've owned for 11 years, to a 30 year old 33/34ft GRP. I'm trying to remind myself what are the expensive jobs that I could expect on an 33/34ft older boat (mid 80's GRP), that we shouldn't expect on a more modern production yacht (late 90's early 2000). I'm thinking about the stuff that is structural/mechanical/engineering - what would stop us sailing - Saggy headlining and tired internal woodwork I can live with :)

Here are my thoughts so far... you can share how likely you think it is too :)

* New engine - 7-10k
* New Standing Rigging ~2k
* Chain plate movement/reinforcement ~2-3K
* Keel Bolt replacement? (we're considering bildge which could double the bill here)
* Osmosis/Epoxy Treatments - Who knows, but epoxied boat should elevate main concerns
Click to expand...

A lot can go wrong. What is the lifespan of a mast for example. Or of a rudder internal structure. And how about rot in the sandwich deck. Water tank leaks, diesel tank leaks.

Why do people think that their cars are dead after say 10 years but their boats live for infinity. They dont. Everything on a boat has a life span and at 30 years a lot of that life has been used up.
 
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