What an arse!

My two pennies worth....

I think its wrong he should be selling them and keeping the profit, however, should someone read and make good use of the guide, possibly preventing the need for a lifeboat to be called out, in the end it could potentially save RNLI quite a lot of cash.

The aspect that needs addressing is that there is presumably a person or team that receives a good wage from the RNLI to market the brand and/or increase revenue outside of donations, therefore they should hopefully have a look at this thread and open an RNLI ebay shop, offering all their gifts / books etc plus postage, as well as any free publications at say 50p a go plus p&p (i have no idea if charities still pay listing fees etc so would need to be looked at).

Another idea would be yearly auctions on ebay of donated prizes / experiences as carried out by the Wild Trout Trust, which attracts a fantastic level of support despite the size of the charity.

A further point is that if the chap in question admits to having no morals about selling these things and preventing a charity from receiving income, then if i was his local social security office i'd have a good look at those benefits claims he's talking about... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

there's no doubting he has a certain skills set , although can't condone his actions.
 
Re: RNLI response

Hi, jezbanks.

As you would expect I am researching that at this very moment!!

Will come back to you on the copyright issue, but the additional words on the guide will ony be in the hundreds, though will involve time, as will the the copyright.

Should be able to advise next week.

Peter
 
Re: RNLI response

Have just read all this thread again with a mounting sense of despair at the levels to which some will stoop. Perhaps those who suggest morals should not be taught at school should read the thread too.

Peter, as the RNLI looks like having to front some money to deal with this sort of scam I'll bung some extra in the lifeboat tin next time I see one, perhaps the rest of us could too when next the moment arises. A fiver from each forumite should go a long way towards getting your additional words and copyright funded.

Failing that, if you get the costing and post it here I'd be happy to send a fiver specifically to help with that, and show a troublemaker we are serious.

Would one of the YBW journos like to drop this one into the national press?
 
Re: RNLI response

The copyright issue is quite clear Section 1 para of the Copyright Design and Patents Act (Oct) 1988
states:

" <span style="color:blue"> Infringement by issue of copies to the public.

18.—(1) The issue to the public of copies of the work is an act restricted by the copyright in every description of copyright work.

(2) References in this Part to the issue to the public of copies of a work are to the act of putting into circulation copies not previously put into circulation, in the United Kingdom or elsewhere, and not to—

(a) any subsequent distribution, sale, hiring or loan of those copies, or

(b) any subsequent importation of those copies into the United Kingdom;

except that in relation to sound recordings, films and computer programs the restricted act of issuing copies to the public includes any rental of copies to the public.</span> "

2a makes it clear that once the copy has been issued to the public there is no more control over copyright.
 
Re: RNLI response

Peter…. Best, as you say, close the loophole with a copyright.
It’s no use appealing to this low life’s better nature, he doesn’t have one.
Though I’m sure he could have been inconvenienced into removing the scam, chances are as soon as this arse is sent slithering back under his stone another one would appear to take his place.

Ebay should not be supporting these people, another example of a good business concept badly managed. How the hell can Ebay condone someone using their site to sell a charity hand out.

Truly the internet at it’s very Very worst.


……..
 
Re: RNLI response

This isn't really an issue of copyright. He is not copying the book and then flogging the copy - he is flogging originals that he obtained for free from the RNLI.

In any event, the book is already copyrighted and the copyright rests with the RNLI - even if they have not done anything to register or protect their copyright - it is still with them.

What he is doing is selling something that he has lawfully acquired. In one sense this is no different from you or I selling second hand books (that we bought) on e-bay.

There is, however, another side to the coin. He acquired these for free from a charitable institution. That charitable institution does not produce these books for sale, for profit, or for resale by others. It certainly DOES cost the RNLI something to produce them, but presumably does not charge for them on the basis that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. In effect, they hope to be saving themselves rescue costs (for example) by distributing these books for free. Our friend now comes along and obtains many copies (he says he wants to do this for years to come!) for free and tries to sell them. I have this feeling that I am not alone in thinking this absolutely morally reprehensible. On the contrary, those who don't think it is morally reprehensible seem to be in a minority of one.

So - can RNLI do anything? Depending on how he obtains his copies, possibly. If he is somehow ordering copies in bulk, or getting them shipped to him - RNLI should be able to stop sending if it chooses to do so. RNLI could also print something in the book (or put a sticker into those already printed) along the lines that the book is distributed for free and is not for resale. I am sure it would be possible to come up with some language that would be legally enforceable.

But as I pondered on this question it occurred to me that even that might not be necessary. What our friend is doing might amount to the tort of unjust enrichment, actionable by the RNLI entitling them to recover all amounts he makes from sales of the books. That would be a nice result!
 
Re: RNLI response

Just noticed Peter Chennel's comments and his position. If you are going to put new language in to make sure no-one does this in the future, it would be worth spending a few hundred quid on a good IP solicitor who can advise on the wording. If you pay for this advice once, you can put it in all your publications in the future.

But what a waste to have to deal with this...
 
Re: RNLI response

I will make sure that all the magazine editors see this thread, so that the readers of Classic Boat, MBM, MBY, YM & YW can all judge Peter's actions for themselves.

I should point out that if anyone woud like a copy of the sea safety guide free go to the website here.
 
Re: RNLI response

I don't quite know what you are saying to me. My post points out that the CPDA does not cover what he is doing and he is not breaking any copyright rules.
I can't actually see how putting any wording restricting re-sale of the booklets would be enforceable under the CPDA.

Jez asked what the copyright position is. That is the position.

Uncle Albert, you don't have to exert a right to copyright it exists. But only under the terms of the act.

I'm not infavour of what he is doing, but it is not a copyright infringement.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_1.htm
 
Re: RNLI response

Not read every post in these 7 pages but has anyone suggested that the RNLI keep a constantly running set of 'buy it now' adds on ebay at, say, UK postage + 50p donation?

Might be a stop gap measure, and better something going to them, rather than the ethically challenged paul.
 
Thank you Keith ... at last !

[ QUOTE ]
I will make sure that all the magazine editors see this thread, so that the readers of Classic Boat, MBM, MBY, YM & YW can all judge Peter's actions for themselves.

I should point out that if anyone woud like a copy of the sea safety guide free go to the website here.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a number of posts that allude to his being sent / ordered copies of the Guide. I cannot recall which post it was he made but he said he downloaded from the web. That means he must have the original text on his drive and be burning cd's or whatever .....
RNLI have no control over him now ....

Question now is ... as an older versions without CR statement etc. - can he still cut and sell those . as they will be without the statement. They are valid older versions ... He will only be "Illegal" on the later amended versions ...

????????????????
 
Copies ?? I dunno ... just going by the thread ..

and his posts ...

But surely if no CR - then you can make copies as you like and sell on ...
 
Re: RNLI response

sorry , yes it has been suggested as has the idea of us lot doing the same /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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