What 2 buy?

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Kelby

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Hi a newbie here (to the forum and the sport!!)

I'm after some advise from the more experianced captains. i've been looking for a while now to purchase a sports crusier anywhere from 24 foot to 29 foot.. with a min of 4 birth..(Yes it might be a little large for a first timer, although i'm not jumping in with both feet, well i could end doing so!! ha ha)

I'm assuming boat makes/maunfacturers are simular to cars in regards - would you buy a Skoda or Bentley! Obviously i've seen Sun Rays, Bayliners, Fairline, Rinker, Crownline, Chaparrel, Princess, Regal, Maxum, Formula, Glastron, etc and havent got a clue about ones to keep clear of or even putting them in an opinion of pecking order... Can you help?

Oh budget is anywhere from 15K to 25k ish

Thanks
 
Hi - In the Medway or Thames (Cuxton more than likley, live close to there) I want to possibly moor on the tidal, but predominantly use at first in the non tidal until gained more competence - i'm also going to complete one of the recognised training course, plus i do have some people i know to help, but they are all in to sailing and not motorboats. I have done some boating in the past as well but a while ago with support!!
 
Hi Kelby,
Welcome and happy new year,
24-29ft & 15 - 25K, how old would you consider, how much diy would you like to do to make it what you want?

You cannot go far wrong with an older Sealine, probably within budget & accomodation to suit 4, only downside is at the age you will be looking everything mechanical will need carefull consideration.
It's always the major expense if it goes wrong, cosmetic stuff is easy to put right, machinery is expensive unless you are prepared to get your hands dirty and even then replacement parts are dearer than the body parts you will need to sacrifice (arm & leg).

Will dig out some examples and attatch them later.
 
Hi Enterprise - I'm pratical so DIY not a problem, although would preffer to keep away from additional work load!! I've look on ebay, apollo, boatshed, boat24 etc and again thats confussing in its own right.. i'm aware to be mindful of engine hours, and diesel is more economical than petrol, therfore the premier price tag on diesel. But whilst another question springs to mind is displacement and planning?? not googled that yet!!
However in the most part, i've looked at an age of 1990 as the start point upwards, but lenght plays a part.. really this is what lead me to the original question as you can get two boats same age & lenght, simular spec but a gulf in price between differant manufacturers, so thought there must be a class differance or popularity in certain makes. :o
 
Price difference is not always down to build quality, a popular boat can retain value what ever the manufacturer.
Take Bayliner for example, mass produced American sport cruisers, often regarded as being built to a price, we owned a 1994 example of a ciera sunbridge, bought, enjoyed for 4 years and finally sold for more than we bought her for, so zero depreciation yet many around here wouldn't touch one & many are very happy owners, however there are good and bad examples.
Maxum share the same perentage, so many of the faults of bayliner are common to Maxum.

Sealine have had some very popular models, good solid boats in the majority but they also have had a few lemons, generic faults accross the range in some years, again depends on model and age, we had a 1996 S240 for a couple of years, bought the best we could find but still had to make structural and cosmetic repairs.

Fairline are good quality and price often reflects the perception that you will be buying a decent boat, Princess are the same, however as with Bayliner and Sealine it depends on how the previous owners have looked after them.

Petrol V Diesel, Diesel boats as you have discovered are premium prices compared to the equivalent petrol version, the reason is, there used to be a vast difference in fuel price, called derogation (ended 2007), the price of marine diesel was probably a fifth of petrol, hence there was a lot of money to be saved to offset the higher initial outlay, although the fuel price is not so different now there are still advantages to diesel, safer and more economical, however any saving in fuel cost has to be considered long term now, so not so clear cut as it used to be.
Diesels are still much more reliable in a marine environment even though modern units are just as reliant on electronics as their petrol rivals.

In short the vast majority of prices will reflect how popular (model/engines/layout) they are, what condition (history/cosmetic/cleanlyness) their in, the machinery (petrol/diesel, service records & general appearance) etc.
No two boats will ever be alike, it's probably fair to say you normally get what you pay for, hence a modern late year sport cruiser at rock botom price is not going to be as pristine as an older well maintained example for the same money.

You need to have a look around a few to appreciate the differences, but that is half the fun of buying a boat!
 
Kelby said:
Hi a newbie here (to the forum and the sport!!)

I'm after some advise from the more experianced captains. i've been looking for a while now to purchase a sports crusier anywhere from 24 foot to 29 foot.. with a min of 4 birth..(Yes it might be a little large for a first timer, although i'm not jumping in with both feet, well i could end doing so!! ha ha)

I'm assuming boat makes/maunfacturers are simular to cars in regards - would you buy a Skoda or Bentley! Obviously i've seen Sun Rays, Bayliners, Fairline, Rinker, Crownline, Chaparrel, Princess, Regal, Maxum, Formula, Glastron, etc and havent got a clue about ones to keep clear of or even putting them in an opinion of pecking order... Can you help?

Oh budget is anywhere from 15K to 25k ish

Thanks
Click to expand...


Personaly for the sort of use you are looking for and the type of boat, I would look for petrol over Diesel every time.

Plenty will argue against it but you are going to be running at low throttle settings on the non tidle Thames and diesels not only don't like it but complain by filling your cockpit with smoke and polishing the inside of the bores (Glazing), vibrating noisely and generaly weighing you down, petrols will be quiter, and remember you will spend most of your time sitting on top of them, will produce virtualy no smoke, will be lighter so the boat is more spritly, and are happy to run at tickover for months. the only downside for your use is that you will either have to pay a premium if you can find waterside petrol or take it to the boat in cans.

We ran a 1992 Sealine 255 with twin 145hp Petrol engines for our first boat and it was Ideal.

You should be able to pick one up towards the bottom end of your budget and they offer loads of accomodation for the length at 26'6" overall.

cautions would be,

with petrol the condition of the fuel system is paramount, a properly maintained petrol boat does not present a saftey risk but a poorly maintained one with leaks is a different matter.
Reliability of diesels over petrols is over egged and petrols are far cheaper to repair or replace if needed.

with any planing hull of this age stress cracking can occur, make sure you get a good surveyor with knowledge of the boat you are looking at, with Sealines make sure he checks the chines well.

Alternatively you could pay the same for a much newer American boat like a Bayliner, the upside is a flasher look and newer engines, the downside is the accomodation will be nowhere near as good, there will be a lot less storage (something you run out of very quickly on a boat) and when you do start to stretch your legs a bit the handling at sea will be far better in the Sealine, the Americans are made for lakes not the North sea chop.

British built boats will also be better put together so will stay screwed together a lot longer, the American will have have bits of trim falling off and loose bits at a much younger age.

As already said though, condition is everything with a boat, if you by a bargain and then have to spend 5 or 10k on it then it will be a very expensive bargain.

Sorry for the long post but we were the same as you 4 years ago and were really struggling to find the information.


Ian
 
Hi This is great information and much appreciated, please keep it coming!! as like most night searching the net to find that first boat... come across a sea ray, Doral, Rinker & Glastron - 2 night, which has taken my fancy, although might avoid the US Boats now!

i used to be indecisive know i'm not sure!! :D Many thanks jamie
 
If you look at sea ray you can't go wrong much better then bayliner. Just about to buy my second one that is petrol power. Sea ray 250 or 270 are great boats. We are just moving up to a 270.
 
I wouldnt discount the american boats too quickly,there are alot of good makes out there that will serve you well as a first boat,they will probably be newer than the equivelant priced uk boats;
if this is your first boat you may not keep it too long as 2ft itus may take hold this is were you outgrow your first boat quicker than you think you will.and a newer bigger boat beckons,

You will get alot of boat for your money with the american sports cruisers and possibly a lot newer boat which will all be relevant when you come to sell,

I would suggest you try and get a few sea trials on the differant makes and see which suits you best,dont rush into buying till you are sure youve picked the right model,as it is easier to buy a boat than it is to sell,
good luck and enjoy the search.

ash
 
"Oh budget is anywhere from 15K to 25k ish "

There a couple of of forumites up at Cuxton snd several more who lurk a few miles down river from you,so you will be in good company.
Most of us here started out with a small(ish) boat,some much smaller than your proposed purchase,which nearly always turn out to be a sports boat of some flavour or other.
First up,all sports boats(and most big posh stuff too) are all made out of the same stuff a big glassfibre dish, lots of chipboard and a bit of Fablon and lots decals lying about the length of the boat.
Normally the larger the decal the bigger the lie.:).

Down to the nitty gritty.Are you any cop with fixing stuff ?
What you really really really should care about are the all those bits that make a noise and make the boat actually move.

The engines and especially the £$%^& "OUTDRIVE(S)"

For every loved and well maintained boat out there ,49 crappy ones awaiting a new mug to buy the previous owners grief.
In the age range of boat you are likely to come across mechanicals will be either Volvo or Mercruiser.Nothing wrong with either make(apart from....well just read this forum) if they have been looked after by previous owners. As these boats start the long slide down the food chain,less and less love will have come their way,unless you find that weird oddball owner who actually looked after his boat.
Mercruiser engine/outdrives will be probably be black beasties and volvos will be mainly red engines(petrol) and all shades of mucky white for outdrives.
Early stuff will be carbs,and later stuff may some tricksy electronics somewhere.
Have a look at the engine is it all neat and tidy or a bluddy great ball of rust with pipes sticking out ?
Expect to use between 2 gallons an hour above Allington(5 knots) and 10-15 (20 knots)on the way to Sheerness depending on boat/engine combination.
What you really want to see is a regularly used boat with a mountain of bills and receipts giving an indication of the outrageous amounts of cash that this boat has sucked from the sellers wallet,preferably for years and years.
When was the outdrive last serviced.....Please say last season ...more than two years ago ? ...thats £500 quid you will need for someone to sort it or £250 to do it yourself.
Ages ago and your guess is as good as mine.

The boat.
A open day boat is fine but sooner or later you will want to show your loved ones the wonders of sleeping aboard your fine vessel,so a bit of accomodation comes in handy and a nice bog will improve your chances 1000% of people coming with you second time.
If under 25ft does it have a trailor,if over,you will need a blooming great 4 X4 to pull it and you will soon get fed up with the agro of launching something weighing 3 tons and will then desperately want a permanent berth.
It is reckoned on here than any boat will cost roughly 10/15% of purchase price to run and it is surprising accurate.
My preference is if you have a very restricted budget go for the biggest UK built boat you can afford or the newest US boat you can find.

See you out there next summer,I will be the one shaking my fist at you as you whizz past:)
 
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OldGits about right, most folk with little boats, either trade up or give up.

For the river a Freeman would be nice, about 26ft ft upwards, but loads of space. OK your talking 1960's ish.

Forget sports boats, there orrible to handle, especially on a river. There short on accomodation and storage. None of this will become apparent untill after useing it a few times.
 
A lot of good advice posted so far, i owned a 2000 rinker 232 for five yrs with a mercruiser 5.7v8 which i found to be an excellent boat great on fuel at 5-10 knots but when opened up to between 30-40 knots it was real thirsty. As for build quality it was quite good to i put 450hrs on her and she didnt show any real signs of wear but in the end i wanted more room and an extra couple of berths so i traded her for a 1990 falcon 27 with twin volvo diesels british built and solid. These boats are well within your price range and quite similar to sealines of the same length well worth a look!
 
Kelby said:
.. come across a sea ray, Doral, Rinker & Glastron - 2 night, which has taken my fancy, although might avoid the US Boats now!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't avoid the US boats because of fears of sea keeping, especially for mostly river/estuary use. You'll get a much newer boat for your money. Some good advice above, like HLB's comment about outdrive boats yawing at low speed, though you can buy outdrive attachments which are supposed to help. Also for lots of low speed use petrols do make sense, as diesels don't like to be run for long periods at low revs, and can be noisy and smelly at such speeds. Petrols get very thirsty at higher speeds though, and petrol isn't always easy to find waterside.

Of the four you mention above, Glastron are the poorer build quality, certainly for second hand boats, though I hear newer one's are better. For example, the wood forming the cockpit seats on my cousins Glastron rotted away when it was only five years old, whereas some builders use marine ply, or even GRP mouldings, which will be far more durable. The other three boats you mention are generally considered to be good boats, and I can also reccommend Chaparral, having owned two of them.
 
Thanks to you all - there is some brill advice & great information... Nodoubt i'll be quizing you all again with the hundreds of questions buzzin in my head!!

:)
 
Theres a huge difference between a 24ft and a 27 ft boat. It's like double the size. Dont worry about handling. bigger boats are easier than small.

Think serously whether you want to be warm and dry, or looking cool but cold and wet.

If it's not got it all ready, the bigger boat will have room for things like fridges, shore power and heating. Being able to walk round the deck is important.
 
"British built boats will also be better put together so will stay screwed together a lot longer, the American will have have bits of trim falling off and loose bits at a much younger age."

Please dont take such ill informed drivel as fact having worked on many boats I would just say that some boats are built better than others despite wich side of the pond they are from. These opions arent heped by the very biased british boating press. Buy a boat suitable for your needs and test it in the conditions you intend to use it.
Regards
 
At your budget, you will be looking at an old brit built boat, probably mid'80's, or an American. As others have indicated, the Americans are not generally built as robustly as the brits, as their sports boats are predominately for lakes rather than sea use. However, I think they can make very good buys, especially when starting out.

We started with a 22 ft Sea Ray cuddy. Well built and good fun. Kept her 4 months, and bought a 25ft Sunbird with accom for 4. Kept her on the Norfolk Broads for 2 seasons, and got fed-up with the 3 hr each way journey from the Midlands.

Had a break for 10 years and bought our Sunline last winter. Really please with her, and can see us keeping her for many years, but we had to go through the growing pains to get there.

For your budget you will be looking at something like a Rinker 270 or similar. Great boat, loads of room compared with a 25 ft boat, and not too difficult to maintain. She is likely to have a carb petrol engine that will drink like a priest at Christmas on the sea, but will be using 1/2 gals per hour on the non-tidal Thames, so the least of your cost considerations. Generally you should be OK with most of the maintenance, but will need professional help with the outdrive, which will need anodes every year, and a full service (£500-£600) every 3 seasons.
Just get out there and enjoy!!
 
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