Whale Gusher 10 Mk 3 problem

DoubleEnder

DoubleEnder

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Hmm.....bad day today. Went on board, all ok, ran the electric bilge pump, made a normal noise, then a funny noise then stopped. eeek. Pulled it up out of its horrid little hole in the bilge (only place it can go), all looked good. Then it would run again. Maybe some sort of overload cut out?

Found the original problem, the outlet hose doesnt run fair enough and it is kinked. Managed to straighten it and support it with hose clamps, so the electric bilge pump will run, but it is a lash up and I don't like it, new hose and maybe new arrangement shortly.

Anyway, I had flooded the bilge in order to test the automaticness (not a float switch, but one of those air pressure jobs), and was feeling pleased and relieved. The boat's on a mooring, and does have a few garboard weeps so the auto pump is ncessary.

Before leaving, I thought I'd pump dry with the manual pump which worked for one, two, three strokes then went completely light. No load on the handle at all....... Not a case of no water in the bilge, just no suction. The pump is supposed to self prime up to 4 metres - I have no more than 1 metre, and it has never been an issue before. Pulled up the hose, no suction. Hmm

So, I did the really horrible wriggle that gets me in the lazarette and round the corner under the cockpit seat to the pump. (If you have ever read 'Aku-Aku' by Thor Heyerdahl he describes sliding down narrow rock tunnels in to caves on Easter Island, very claustrophobic, yuk. It's like that)

The diaphragm looks fine, and there is no hissing noise. Pulled the inlet hose off, and there is no suction even at the pump. All hoses are clear, blah blah.

Any ideas? Is it possible that the valve on the exhaust side has failed in some way? Any ideas at all?

The pump has had 3 seasons light use. It is not exposed to UV (I wish). What can go wrong with these things?

Ah yes, on the way back the outboard gave in. Presumably a pump problem somewhere.....

Many thanks


Graham
 
If I remember rightly, the Gusher 10 is a yellow, aluminium framed job with flap valves on both inlet and outlet sides. We had an old one on a T24 and we recut the seats, apparently to no avail. But then, I found that by holding the handle very close to the pivot and flapping it around really fast, it would pump air until it primed with water. It could be that the flap valves and seats just need a bit of a clean. Of course, a non-return valve and strum box will help...

Rob.
 
The Gusher 10 is robust design, but not terribly durable. What happens is that the alloy corrodes inside the pump and the valves then lose their seal against the pump body. If you take it out and remove the diaphragm, you'll see what I mean.

I cleaned the inside of mine up with sandpaper and painted it with Hammerite, and it lasted a few years more, but I've had to replace it this year. Sadly, because of the mounting bolts issue, I replaced it with another Gusher 10.
 
Actually, the paint coating is not a cheap affair, but a heavy duty paint with good preperation and primer. Surprised that you have found the casing to corrode so easily!

Give the manufacturer Whale Pumps in Bangor, Northern Ireland a call - they are usually incredibly helpful and would want to know if you were having a problem!

Anyway, no bias except my father designed it;)
 
Here is the link to Whale pumps, Gusher MK10. Go on the spare or Exploded drawing link at the top for more info. Made by Munster Simms Engineering in Bangor Northern Ireland. Very nice helpfull people to deal with. The ladies who answer the phone can answer any question you are likely to ask, this is no "Call Centre", perhaps a "Centre of Technical Excellance" in modern day terms.
http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/product_list/7/49/
 
first time mine stopped working...

it was the corrosion. flap valves not seating as explained above. the replacement was scuppered by small pieces of debris getting past the strum box and lodging in the inlet valve. fortunately mine is much easier to access than the OPs. Worth taking the diaphragm off and having a look - back down the cave...
 
Thank you everybody

That is helpful.

Anyone got a suggestion for replacement? It needs to be a through-bulkhead design. If this is a known problem maybe I'll swap it out.

I have to say I really like the pump when it works, shame about this problem

Graham
 
Graham. Your pump can be fitted with two different flap valves, one type has a semi-circular shape on a square,the other is a squarish shape.
I've had mine for 30 years and only this year did I have your problem;after stripping it down, cutting off mounting bolts ,and renewing the hoses I found that the pump had been fitted with the wrong shape exhaust flap valves, the inlet ones were the square type. As you will know it is a struggle to get to the exhaust ones and corrosion of the flap screws didn't help, anyway it is now back to normal. I don't expect to have to do it again for another say 20 years if I'm lucky! By the way,I fitted the rounded ones to inlet and exhaust.

ianat182
 
ianat182 said:
Graham. Your pump can be fitted with two different flap valves, one type has a semi-circular shape on a square,the other is a squarish shape.
I've had mine for 30 years and only this year did I have your problem;after stripping it down, cutting off mounting bolts ,and renewing the hoses I found that the pump had been fitted with the wrong shape exhaust flap valves, the inlet ones were the square type. As you will know it is a struggle to get to the exhaust ones and corrosion of the flap screws didn't help, anyway it is now back to normal. I don't expect to have to do it again for another say 20 years if I'm lucky! By the way,I fitted the rounded ones to inlet and exhaust.
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand your post, however the valve shape changed between the Mk2 pump and the current Mk3 pump. The current pump has square valves.

Anyone fitting a Gusher 10 would be well advised to dismantle it first and treat all the stainless screws with Duralac (barium chromate paste) before reassembling - this will make it easier to dismantle in the future when valves need replacing.
 
gdallas said:
That is helpful.

Anyone got a suggestion for replacement? It needs to be a through-bulkhead design. QUOTE]

Try the Gusher Titan - it is a more efficient pump design than the Gusher 10 and in made in tough plastics, very versatile to fit.

However, have to declare further bias, my brother designed this one:D
Click to expand...
 
I have Whale pumps on my loo (Lavac) and bilge. Not sure which actual models, but they are delightfully simple & almost impossible to block. Issues that can cause problems are stuff blocking the valves - like corrosion, solid objects and perished valves. As already pointed out, in the event of an air lock, rapid operation of the pump handle will pump air until water is lifted to the valves, this will then generally flush the valve clear & provide hydraulic lift quite effectively.
 
I just remembered that when we reconditioned the pump, we flatted off the valve seats and then "painted" them with an anodising solution. That probably held off the corrosion, which seems to be a problem. Anodised aluminium survives salt corrosion quite well, but will not take painting, so I guess the original yellow finish demands an un-anodised finish..?

Rob.
 
PVB
The valve openings were circular but had been fitted with the square flaps,where they should have been the rounded ones.I had spares of both types aboard,and the instruction parer for refitting them.

ianat182
 
update

Thank you everyone for the input and help. I took the pump out and replaced the intake and exhaust valves (rectangular shape fro the Mark 3). The pump now works fine. Result.......

However, the machine screws were really really hard to remove, and I actually broke a screwdriver in the process. The pump has seen 3 years service only...And I completely failed to remove the nut that holds the diaphragm assembly together. This will have to wait until I can put it in a vice I think, it was impossible on my knee in the cockpit.

So there are some serious corrosion issues here I think

Graham
 
Back again!

Exactly the same problem!!!
Took the pump home, got it disassembled this time, butthere is serious corrosion inside the pump. The yellow paint (powder coating??) is coming away, bubbled up and caused the flap valves not to seat properly. And the stainless machine screws that hold the valves in to the pump body are corroding the aluminium. On the exhaust side this is so bad that only 2 of the four screws bite - the other two have corroded away the thread in the aluminium pump body.

Not happy, especially since I have spent £30 on a spares kit - you cant just buy the valves, you have to get a diaphragm as well.

I like the design, but the materials are not good. I'll talk to MS on Monday, see what they say, but I fancy replacing the whole thing with a plastic body pump.

Grrr
 
Last edited:
gdallas said:
Exactly the same problem!!!
Took the pump home, got it disassembled this time, butthere is serious corrosion inside the pump. The yellow paint (powder coating??) is coming away, bubbled up and caused the flap valves not to seat properly. And the stainless machine screws that hold the valves in to the pump body are corroding the aluminium. On the exhaust side this is so bad that only 2 of the four screws bite - the other two have corroded away the thread in the aluminium pump body.

Not happy, especially since I have spent £30 on a spares kit - you cant just buy the valves, you have to get a diaphragm as well.

I like the design, but the materials are not good. I'll talk to MS on Monday, see what they say, but I fancy replacing the whole thing with a plastic body pump.

Grrr
Click to expand...

I had the same problem and I agree that the issues are 1) the yellow (powder) paint is not totally waterproof and 2) the s/s screws into aluminum are a no-no. #2 can be partly mitigated with duralac but #1 has no easy solution.
The first time I had the problem on a 3 year old pump I was happily surprised by a kind and free total replacement by the manufacturer but I expect the problem to appear again.
I am afraid but next time I will substitute with a plastic body pump.

Daniel
 
Good service from British firm, yay

Spoke to Munster Simms (Aidan, nice bloke) and they agreed to replace the pump, so today I have posted the old one (5 years old) off. This is excellent service from a British manufacturer and makes you realize why it is useful,important, pleasant and profitable to have manufacturing inddustry here. I know that it might have happened with a foreign made item, if they have a good UK distributor but there is something very satisfying about talking to the people that make it.

Would of course be even better if it hadn't failed...

Graham
 
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