Weymouth to west outside race

[STATUE]

Going into Dartmouth at night is magnificent.

And if you want a lesson on leading lights, Dartmouth opens its illuminated arms to you.

... however, I did do schematic sketch of the light sectors.

 

[ithet]

Of course it's not 3 hours but best to get out and allow plenty of time.
Steveeasy

So, if I arrive at the inshore passage an hour and a half before the optimum time that would be ok?

 

[TernVI]

So, if I arrive at the inshore passage an hour and a half before the optimum time that would be ok?

Depends on a) what you are calling the 'optimum time' and b) the weather. And maybe c) your boat and seamanship.
I have been around there 'a bit early' and found it calmer than the Solent.
The optimum sort of 'optimum time' has a bit of margin in it.
Are we talking springs or neaps?
Wind direction? Strength? History?
Do you panic easily?
Will your crew forgive you if it's a bit boisterous for a while?

Sometimes we're not looking for 'OK', we're looking for a 'just so' demonstration of our YM passage planning God status.

 

[ithet]

Optimum time being Dover -0100. So my comment was for about arriving about Dover -0230. Date is tomorrow or Saturday. 34ft AWB. But CA almanac warns about being set into "last of E-going race"

 

[TernVI]

Saturday might be a little breezy to be taking liberties.
I don't have everything memorised realtive to HW Dover or whatever.
Maybe best to look at the detail of the tide down the side of Portland and plan your arrival reasonably accurately.

 

[steveeasy]

I think I was saying 3 hours to go outside of East shambles marker and round the outside. Ready for the tide to turn. I personally would still head out 2 hours early to take the inner passage .of course it's only an opinion and given I made a right mess last time I'm just trying to plan what I might do. Either way have a good trip.
Steveeasy

 

[SimonFa]

Saturday might be a little breezy to be taking liberties.
I don't have everything memorised realtive to HW Dover or whatever.
Maybe best to look at the detail of the tide down the side of Portland and plan your arrival reasonably accurately.

Not least because its Springs and getting wrong by any significant margin and it could get quite hairy.

The now defunct Sailing Almanac website had an excellent diagram with timings that I thought I'd saved, but can't find it. I've got a hard copy on the boat that's not much use now. Anyway, they advised against going round at Springs.

 

[steveeasy]

Don't forget to update us which ever way you go. I for one would find it extremely benificial.
Steveeasy

 

[ithet]

I will, but the plan is to go with conventional wisdom around the bill as arriving late at Dartmouth is much the lesser of two evils. So that will be via inner race at earliest 12:30BST. It will be a motor to Dartmouth head to wind, so might divert to Torbay if a wind angle for the develops.

 

[RJJ]

Optimum time being Dover -0100. So my comment was for about arriving about Dover -0230. Date is tomorrow or Saturday. 34ft AWB. But CA almanac warns about being set into "last of E-going race"

If you are, as advised in the books, hugging the eastern side of the Bill then OK, you can be early. The point is, the flood tide is then following the shore; you can always slow down.

If you are 1/2 mile offshore you are susceptible (as you say) to being swept further E by the last of the flood. That could make it hard to make the inshore passage once the tide turns - depending on wind direction and boatspeed. If it's a robust S, you will be bearing away onto a beam reach and can probably bear away a bit more to get really close. If wind has any N in it, it may be a struggle, with the tide at that time taking you straight towards the race.

There was an excellent article in YM about a trainee skipper doing it. I think the Monty Mariner site also covers it well.


In certain conditions (relative to size and speed of yacht) it really isn't a big deal. In others, you can't plan too carefully. It's not just that the race is big and hairy, it's that basically any mistake you make (too early, too offshore, too late) has the potential to stuff you right in it.

 

[dom]

If you are, as advised in the books, hugging the eastern side of the Bill then OK, you can be early. The point is, the flood tide is then following the shore; you can always slow down.

If you are 1/2 mile offshore you are susceptible (as you say) to being swept further E by the last of the flood. That could make it hard to make the inshore passage once the tide turns - depending on wind direction and boatspeed. If it's a robust S, you will be bearing away onto a beam reach and can probably bear away a bit more to get really close. If wind has any N in it, it may be a struggle, with the tide at that time taking you straight towards the race.

There was an excellent article in YM about a trainee skipper doing it. I think the Monty Mariner site also covers it well.


In certain conditions (relative to size and speed of yacht) it really isn't a big deal. In others, you can't plan too carefully. It's not just that the race is big and hairy, it's that basically any mistake you make (too early, too offshore, too late) has the potential to stuff you right in it.

Steady on! In the 10-18k knots of wind forecast this w/e, even close to springs, the race won’t endanger any well found vessel. Just avoid the white water if possible and all will be fine. As with any tidal race it can of course be truly vicious when cut up by a big swell and big winds, but when these don’t apply it’s really no big deal.

What is of course possible is that a slow moving vessel gets pushed backwards at peak flow but that can easily be calculated using a tidal atlas.

Not at all suggesting people be blasé about it, just to keep a sense of proportion.

 

[ithet]

Don't forget to update us which ever way you go. I for one would find it extremely benificial.
Steveeasy

So belated update.

Left Portland Marina about 10:45 4/9/20, kept close to shore motoring down to inshore passage and passed lighthouse at 12:15 - so about Dover -1. At the bill there was 14kn true wind from west. SOG round the bill never dropped below 5.5kn. No sign of any broken water either in inshore passage or nearby. A number of boats went further out (not sure they went as far as E Shambles) from what I could see they did not hit rough water. As we were heading down to bill we passed a number of boats that had come the other way (I was tracking them on AIS) which had rounded from the west sometime earlier. So on reflection I think we could have rounded somewhat earlier ( an hour or maybe more), so that answers my question about Dover -0230 being OK, even with the spring tide I do not think we would have had an issue against the last of the E going tide (but we are 34ft AWB with 30hp).

We had quite a choppy into wind crossing of Lyme Bay under motor (oh the joy of a good autopilot), and arrived at Dartmouth just after dusk. As suggested entering Dartmouth in dark was easy, identifying the lights for the two cardinals and then following the clear sector lights. Luckily our friends had arranged a good mooring (rafting onto them at Town Quay) so we knew where we were going and had help. Not sure I would have liked to turn up in dark looking for vacant visitor spot in current situation.

 

[ip485]

Literally just been that way the day before yesterday., but in the other direction.

Generally I wouldnt consider going outside if west bound as it is such a long way around. Anything up to a F6 is fine through the inshore passage and as you obvioulsy know hug the shore very closely. There are some outfalls just to the East of the head as well, if you are any distance off the shore. Dont totally rely on the tidal charts either, I was surprised a couple of days ago to find the tide was a couple of hours adrift of the predictions.

 

[ip485]

Well done and if you are there for a while staying on the hook opposite the marina is also a very good option - holding is good and it is a very pleasant location, and great for a late arrival, we turned up also just after midnight last week and it is easy to drop anchor rather that look for anything else.

 

[Mudisox]

I go out round the Bill often.,
If the weather is not too bad for you to sail across Lyme Bay, and you can do 4 kts under engine, it always makes sense to take the inside passage, at any state of the tide. Pass pulpit rock and head NW until free of the South going clockwise tidal stream on the West of the Bill , before shaping your course to the West. If you keep to the North of the direct route you'll miss most of the traffic too, only the fishermen.

 

[bdh198]

So belated update.

Left Portland Marina about 10:45 4/9/20, kept close to shore motoring down to inshore passage and passed lighthouse at 12:15 - so about Dover -1. At the bill there was 14kn true wind from west. SOG round the bill never dropped below 5.5kn. No sign of any broken water either in inshore passage or nearby. A number of boats went further out (not sure they went as far as E Shambles) from what I could see they did not hit rough water. As we were heading down to bill we passed a number of boats that had come the other way (I was tracking them on AIS) which had rounded from the west sometime earlier. So on reflection I think we could have rounded somewhat earlier ( an hour or maybe more), so that answers my question about Dover -0230 being OK, even with the spring tide I do not think we would have had an issue against the last of the E going tide (but we are 34ft AWB with 30hp).

We had quite a choppy into wind crossing of Lyme Bay under motor (oh the joy of a good autopilot), and arrived at Dartmouth just after dusk. As suggested entering Dartmouth in dark was easy, identifying the lights for the two cardinals and then following the clear sector lights. Luckily our friends had arranged a good mooring (rafting onto them at Town Quay) so we knew where we were going and had help. Not sure I would have liked to turn up in dark looking for vacant visitor spot in current situation.

We did the same passage with similar timings to you in August. We also arrived in Dartmouth just after dusk. Unfortunately we didn’t have a berth arranged in advanced, and not being too familiar with anchoring in the river we motored up and took a free mooring buoy just before reaching Dittisham. Dartmouth isn’t too tricky to get into at night for the unfamiliar visitor so long as you have a careful look at the chart and keep a sharp eye out if you’re continuing up the river.

 

[DJE]

As we were heading down to bill we passed a number of boats that had come the other way (I was tracking them on AIS) which had rounded from the west sometime earlier.

One of them was me! Left Dartmouth at about 04:30 and in Portland Marina about lunchtime. Did you see the dolphins in Lyme Bay?

 

[jimi]

If I recall correctly the tide moves almost constantly in an anti clockwise direction around the Shambles so by going outside from Weymouth you are not only going the long way round but you'll have the tide against you as well. If you are planning to go outside I'd start from Poole as there would be very little difference in time and distance through the water if you plan it correctly. When I've crossed at night I've headed straight for Brixham where the visitor pontoon is very easy.