Westerly owners: information please

Greenheart

Greenheart

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A current Scuttlebutt thread is pretty harsh about the sailing performance of the Westerly Riviera, and other Westerly designs.

I'm sorry to read such withering dismissal of so many Westerly yachts' sailing ability.

I suppose the bilge keels and coachroofs should be a clue. But lots of Westerly owners seem so impressed by their boats' sailing characteristics, I'd begun to overlook the chunkiness and was assuming the designs really do combine practicality and performance.

Just how rotten are they? Or, how good?

I know it's a matter of compromise. There'll always be racers who sneer critically at a habitable, comfortable moderate design, and marina-dwellers who whine about the same boat's narrow beam or low headroom. One boat won't please everyone.

Lots is written about how slightly the bilge keels harm the sailing performance of popular Westerly models. Is that actually nonsense from owners blinded by fondness?

Please be honest...

I'd like to know which Westerly you have, and how few degrees off the wind your yacht can beat in a force 3 at sea.

Do you suspect your Westerly could usually handle a bit more sail than she was designed with?

Do you tend most often to wish the boat was: a) quicker, at cost to accommodation, or b) roomier, at cost to performance?

Which Westerly would you have chosen, if someone else was paying? What'll your next boat be? Why in particular?

Thanks for all replies. :)
 
Nothing wrong with Westerlys. The comments in the other thread (some mine) related to one particular model which in it's own way is OK, just so long as the limitations are understood.

I don't believe in generalising by make, or even designer because every one is different depending on the design brief and designer competence.
 
Agreed, I don't want to make sweeping assumptions about the varied products of a very successful company. I'm hoping to assess which models are performers, plus which aren't, and just whereabouts in the middle the rest are!

I doubt the Konsort Duo quickens her skipper's blood flow much, and I doubt the thrilled, contented J24 crew can stand up in their cabin.

Those models are very clearly intended for racing or cruising. I'm really wondering whether the standard Konsort is as rewarding to sail as is often said, or is that only relative to its surprising roominess? Do the Storm and Typhoon live up to their names?

So many of the old 70s and early 80s Westerly boats are different cockpit/aft cabin arrangements and rigs, differing keels, planted on the same hulls. I'm keen to know how successful they are, and which were photogenic ideas that didn't really work out.

I love the little Chieftain - doubtless designed off the soaring popularity of the Centaur, but with a more interesting rig and a nice kids' cabin at the back. But how many were actually built? I hardly ever see them for sale. Were they rotten to sail?

Any responses will help open my eyes. :D
 
My fin keel Fulmar sails like a thoroughbred and I've seen 11 knots on the gps on more than one ocasion so not all Westerlies are the same.In general I'd say that Westerlies are good sailors some more than others.
 
"Do the Storm and Typhoon live up to their names" - By most accounts I believe so!

No complaints re performance of my Fulmar twin keel nor on the accomodation. According to PN numbers Fulmars are the quickest twin keel boat!
 
westerly boat

hi we have owned a Westerly Solway for the past 3 years, having moved from a catamaran.
She is 34 years old & solid, we chose this boat to live on full time over some of the other thin, faster? boats around, we consider she has great lines & turns heads, many people have commentated, boaty people & others. We didn't want to sit inside watching the shadows of people through the hull. She is twin keel, aft cabin, ketch rig, heaps of room we feel very safe in her which we consider to be very important. We have been in some very heavy seas along the east & south coasts, with no problems. We have had her at 9 kts But who wants to keep going fast? if you do buy a mobo, may be i' m just getting old but i don't understand the need for speed in life, fast cars fast planes fast boats, life is too short. In the end it is an idividual choice no one is right. I have only had twin keel boats over the past years & remain quite happy.
I believe that those who put down twin keels may ony be biased cos they have different keels, rather like non catamaran owners giving negative comments even though they have never been in one. Does it really matter if you cant point as high as others????? It is what type of sailing you want to do. I had owned Liesure boats for years & got fed up with folks saying how bad they sailed etc etc etc, but again very solid boats which to feel safe in.
In my opinion, go for the Westerly range i dont think you will regret it. Great owners association.
Please PM me if you want any further info. I can send you through some photos.
 
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Well, my dad has owned a W33 ketch, (bilge keel) for about 25 years now - I've been on her surfing down waves with the kite up and the speedo speedo over 10 knots on several occasions, I've sailed her two handed through an entire fleet of more modern similar sized yachts in about 20-25kts of breeze (we started late) and I would sail her anywhere. Well made, well fitted out. She is however not a light weather tool, anything under about 10kts of breeze and more modern stuff just goes straight past. We're also both very experienced dinghy sailors which does help in getting the best out of her but she does deliver the goods EVERY time the conditions are fun.
I should add that she's a 1979 boat and is still on her original Ratsey sails and the spinnaker is a second hand 1972 affair that's rather blown out these days but still going strong (somehow!). All the above was done in full cruising trim, lots of fuel onboard, lots of water, plenty of grub etc.
 
There are few other yacht marques that have as devoted a following as the Westerly range of yachts, Laurent Giles, Dubois and Butler were their main designers and they seemed to have the knack and expertise in getting these designs right for the purpose intended, and for their longevity and durability. Earlier models were over-engineered at the beginning of GRP use and like all new materials there were faults that were only found with this new material in later years. Even after the knowledge of osmosis other manufacturers also had problems, on very much thinner GRP and modern resins.
Accommodation was a leading factor in getting approval from SWMBOs for the initial purchase besides stowage of the kitchen sink items aboard.
The earlier Centaurs were overpowered with mainly Volvo 18 and 23HP engines,where a 10hp would have been sufficient really.
Faults found where bilge keels worked and leaked have largely been rectified by added reinforcements in Centaurs, Pageants and Griffons, with no problems in the Merlin and Konsort models. One has to say that the skill levels in fitting out these hulls in those days was first class and Lloyds certified. Without exception most Westerlys have held their price when on the market and their owners have often stayed with the marque for their next yacht.
By todays 'standards' Centaurs, Pageants , Merlins and Tigers appear to have too much freeboard and have been referred to as 'caravans' by the same searchers for 6'6" headroom in a 26 yacht,but many floating caravans can still sail the pants off off the mini yachts in F5-6-7 winds withoiut worry of flimsy rigs or paperthin grp hulls failing.
I have sailed on most of the Westerly range of yachts and the Fulmar and the Discus are two of the best and the Konsort a good third.

Me? I'm the joint owner since 1983-4 of a Tiger and I love it!

ianat182
 
Never been on a Chieftan, but I have sailed its big sister (a Pentland) since 1988, so here are a few comments based on that plus some knowledge of the Centaur, Pageant & 21 etc.

The aft cabin on mine is adequate for a couple of kids, the headroom is about 4' so OK if you get dressed sitting down. There is limited storage & no hanging space in it. To get the aft cabin, you lose a couple of feet off the main saloon - no problem in a 31' hull, but could be an issue for a 26' one! I like the ketch rig on my boat, but it is about as small as a ketch can be before the rig becomes pointlessly over complex & inefficient. On a Centaur you do NOT need to split the sail area over 2 masts & the extra mast & rigging just add windage & cost for no benefit. Wheel stering on such a small hull length is also adding pointless complications.

Finally, the kids HATE having to leave the nice wam saloon to cross the cockpit out in the open when going to bed at night. Add a bit of wind & rain to that & you have a revolt on your hands! Against that, they do enjoy having their own space & no-one telling them to tidy up, but loads of stuff goes missing as they each "tidy away" the other kids stuff!

They may not sail like a witch, but they make good progress & the Konsort & W33 derivatives in particular have an excellent reputation for sailing well & comfortably.
 
G12 said:
Well, my dad has owned a W33 ketch, (bilge keel) for about 25 years now - I've been on her surfing down waves with the kite up and the speedo speedo over 10 knots on several occasions, I've sailed her two handed through an entire fleet of more modern similar sized yachts in about 20-25kts of breeze (we started late) and I would sail her anywhere. Well made, well fitted out. She is however not a light weather tool, anything under about 10kts of breeze and more modern stuff just goes straight past. We're also both very experienced dinghy sailors which does help in getting the best out of her but she does deliver the goods EVERY time the conditions are fun.
I should add that she's a 1979 boat and is still on her original Ratsey sails and the spinnaker is a second hand 1972 affair that's rather blown out these days but still going strong (somehow!). All the above was done in full cruising trim, lots of fuel onboard, lots of water, plenty of grub etc.
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Will be even better with a new mainsail. Changed our mainsail at the end of last season and it massively improved an already excellent package (westerly discus). I am not your usual westerly sailor, I'm 39 and don't like cruising at a snails pace. Discus fin keel will beat into a f3 at about 40 degrees, any lower and it will make huge leeway. Accomodation is excellent, performance is good and over 16 kts, like a different boat. Have surprised a few other boats with passage times, last years highlight being overtaking a very confused Starlight 35 owner. Not claiming the boat is a flying machine but given decent wind, performance is better than you would think.
 
30boat said:
My fin keel Fulmar sails like a thoroughbred and I've seen 11 knots on the gps on more than one ocasion so not all Westerlies are the same.In general I'd say that Westerlies are good sailors some more than others.
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I had a BK fulmar for 13 years and was always surprised by its speed upwind. In a sea it performed really well. Probably the best BK that Westerly built
 
I have an Ocean 33 fin keel which was the replacement for the Fulmar and also designed by Ed Dubois. The only things of similar size that go by are the X-Boats, she sails quite happily at 35 degrees apparent and will squeeze up to 30 but with a loss of speed and probably greater leeway which is clearly self defeating, she also sails extremely well in light airs. The Fulmars and Typhoons both sail well, I have no experience of the Storm or the larger models. I did some of my RYA training on a Seahawk which also sailed suprisingly well for such a large volume hull. I think the models such as the Konsort Duo, Vulcan and Riviera should perhaps be considere more as motor sailors when making comparisons.
 
I've sailed a few Westerlies over the years, Centaur, Berwick, Pageant, Storm and Fulmar. None are what I'd call particularly fast, but that's as it should be as they were never designed to be that way. They all fulfill their brief as well engineered cruisers which have stood up well to the test of time and have good sailing manners but fast? Mmmm! My favourite was the Fulmar to sail as well as live aboard. Nice boat all round.
 
Hi

I have a Westerly Konsort which I have owned for 2.5 years. When i bought her I was looking for a Fulmar but could only find very poor condition ones at high prices, then I found the Konsort, she's great. Loads of room inside and sails very well tiller steering and behaves very much like a dinghy she is quire easy ro set so that she is sailing herself. Below about 8 knots of wind, you have to really coax her to get going but above that she flies, the last run out was from Barmouth to Pwhelli with the wind at 37 knots with my dog sat on the side not batting an eyelid.

I often think she could point higher, but I often think that in any boat.
We do a lot of club racing in a mixed handicap fleet and often beat bigger lower handicap boats on the water before the handicap has even been applied. The main frustration I think is when sailing aginst the "faster" boats in lighter airs I can often stay with them until I make a mistake which knocks the speed off, it can then take an age to get going again, whereas they accelerate that much quicker so I just have to make less mistakes!

When passage planning I work on 4.5 knots and always get there early.
 
We spent ages deciding on the right boat for us and have been very happy with our fin keel Seahawk. Many posters on these forums seem to think that their own priorities should apply to everyone else. No doubt many would disagree with ours.

For us the principal features required, in order of priority, were:

1. A comfortable aft cabin with good headroom and a double berth, to minimise back problems.

2. A new engine with ample power, as the boat was expected to spend a large proportion of its time under power.

3. Enough space to accomodate occasional overnight guests with their own privacy.

4. A small and well sheltered cockpit with wheel steering.

5. Adequate sailing ability and sail handling.

6. Renewed fiitings including Origo cooker, freshwater flush vacuum heads plus holding tank, chartplotter and radar, revised electrical installation.

I consider our boat to be a motorsailer (as defined by Dag Pike).


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Whizzy sailors will no doubt despise us but we're very happy with our boat. Without tripling the capital cost there's nothing else I'd rather have.

P.S. I have no idea how close to the wind the boat will sail. We simply use the engine to motorsail when needed.
 
Amp1ng said:
"Do the Storm and Typhoon live up to their names" - By most accounts I believe so!
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+1

We bought a Storm 33OD because it is solid, well built and will take punishment if you are unlucky to get caught out in unpleasant conditions. For a 24 year old boat she performs well enough achieving respectable passage times. It is safe without being boring and we have found her comfortable and accommodating during our liveaboard sessions in the Med and Baltic.Good examples seem to hold their price and are in demand, so something must be right!
 
G12 said:
Well, my dad has owned a W33 ketch, (bilge keel) for about 25 years now - I've been on her surfing down waves with the kite up and the speedo speedo over 10 knots on several occasions, I've sailed her two handed through an entire fleet of more modern similar sized yachts in about 20-25kts of breeze (we started late) and I would sail her anywhere. Well made, well fitted out. She is however not a light weather tool, anything under about 10kts of breeze and more modern stuff just goes straight past. We're also both very experienced dinghy sailors which does help in getting the best out of her but she does deliver the goods EVERY time the conditions are fun.
I should add that she's a 1979 boat and is still on her original Ratsey sails and the spinnaker is a second hand 1972 affair that's rather blown out these days but still going strong (somehow!). All the above was done in full cruising trim, lots of fuel onboard, lots of water, plenty of grub etc.
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I have a W33, bilge keel ketch, as well and would support everything you have said. Maybe not the fastest boat in the world and you probably won't win many races but you will go to sea in the knowledge that your boat will handle just about anything the weather can throw at you.

As well as that the amount of accomodation, storage space, general comfort and sea keeping qualities surpasses that of most other makes which makes the W33 widely recognised as one of the best blue water cruising boats ever produced.
 
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