john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
From memory, the Fulmar uses the head end of the quarter berth as a seat for the chart table - it doesn't have a separate seat.
Westerly Konsort - good choice?
- Thread starter Matt341
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Rafiki
Well-Known Member
Hi,
I can give you some info on the Konsort vs Fulmar comparison as I am a co-owner of both.
The big diffs are:
1) The Fulmar sails much better, it's hull shape is much more streamlined. The Konsort is fatter for longer if you see what I mean. Indeed the Fulmar was originally marketed as a cruiser racer adn launched with a match racing series !
2) As a consequence of the above and other points below the forecabin is much larger in the Konsort. The bunk is lower and so wide you could sleep across it. The Fulmars fore cabin is far more "cosy"
3) The general space in the saloon is much larger in the Fulmar: more space in the galley area, and much more staorage in that area; bigger chart tabel and seperate seat whereas on the Konsort the seat is the head of the quarterberth; one of the saloon benches in the Konsort is shorter and if you sleep on it your feet have to go into a "trotter box" into the next cupboard;
4) there are two hanging lockers in the Fulmar and the heads is larger
5) the quarter berth is about the same size in both but more difficult to get into in the Fulmar as it is pushed further back. It would be difficult for "company" to join you during the night in said berth on a Fulmar but I know it's possible on a Konsort (dont tell swmbo)
All in all the Fulmar is the better boat and slightly more modern design and as result more expensive, but when buying old boats the condition and what has recently been changed are most important.
I bought the Fulmar because i bought it at a good price for less than I would have paid for a Konsort, but had to do a major refit to get it up to standard; new stading rigging £1800, new headlining, £3000 new upholstery etc £1200 to name just the three most expensive things.
Regards
6)
I can give you some info on the Konsort vs Fulmar comparison as I am a co-owner of both.
The big diffs are:
1) The Fulmar sails much better, it's hull shape is much more streamlined. The Konsort is fatter for longer if you see what I mean. Indeed the Fulmar was originally marketed as a cruiser racer adn launched with a match racing series !
2) As a consequence of the above and other points below the forecabin is much larger in the Konsort. The bunk is lower and so wide you could sleep across it. The Fulmars fore cabin is far more "cosy"
3) The general space in the saloon is much larger in the Fulmar: more space in the galley area, and much more staorage in that area; bigger chart tabel and seperate seat whereas on the Konsort the seat is the head of the quarterberth; one of the saloon benches in the Konsort is shorter and if you sleep on it your feet have to go into a "trotter box" into the next cupboard;
4) there are two hanging lockers in the Fulmar and the heads is larger
5) the quarter berth is about the same size in both but more difficult to get into in the Fulmar as it is pushed further back. It would be difficult for "company" to join you during the night in said berth on a Fulmar but I know it's possible on a Konsort (dont tell swmbo)
All in all the Fulmar is the better boat and slightly more modern design and as result more expensive, but when buying old boats the condition and what has recently been changed are most important.
I bought the Fulmar because i bought it at a good price for less than I would have paid for a Konsort, but had to do a major refit to get it up to standard; new stading rigging £1800, new headlining, £3000 new upholstery etc £1200 to name just the three most expensive things.
Regards
6)
Coaster
Well-Known Member
Not forgetting that the Fulmar is a different size boat, with a hull 3' longer (or nearly 4' in the case of the Fulmar 33).
awelch5
New Member
Onia - thanks for your comparison views, most helpful.
Hope this is not off topic too much, but whilst we are on the comparison theme.
How much different is the Konsort/Fulmar from the Centaur/Griffon.
Trying to reconcile if it is worth spending the extra to get a Konsort/Fulmar over a Centaur/Griffon. Or whether to get a 26' boat first then updrade to 29' or 32' later.
I know the Centaur/Griffon are smaller boats, but what experience views do people have on living with the Centaur/Griffon interior? I like the aft cabin of the Griffon. Have seen a Centaur without heads being enclosed with a door, and no door on bow cabin, which I didn't like. Are all Centaur's like this?
Hope this is not off topic too much, but whilst we are on the comparison theme.
How much different is the Konsort/Fulmar from the Centaur/Griffon.
Trying to reconcile if it is worth spending the extra to get a Konsort/Fulmar over a Centaur/Griffon. Or whether to get a 26' boat first then updrade to 29' or 32' later.
I know the Centaur/Griffon are smaller boats, but what experience views do people have on living with the Centaur/Griffon interior? I like the aft cabin of the Griffon. Have seen a Centaur without heads being enclosed with a door, and no door on bow cabin, which I didn't like. Are all Centaur's like this?
Rafiki
Well-Known Member
Centuar vs Konsort vs Fulmar
Interesting Q wrt Centuar and Konsort.
I am a minority co-owner of a Konsort because the syndicate includes my father and taht syndicate moved up from a Centuar and at teh time my father didn't want to put more money in to upgrdae to a larger boat, so I came on board to help out. In practice I now only use the Kponsort once a year.
The previous boat the syndicate had was a Centuar - I wasn't involved in taht and had little to do with it. From what the syndicate said I can only say that the Konsort is much better and bigger. As with all boats teh extra 3 foot isn't 3 foot stuck on the end but 3 foot added into the middle plus a foot or so wider. If you can afforrd the Konsort then go for it, but if you can't then it is very common for people to start their boat ownership with a Centuar and then later move up the westerly chain.
One thing I have observed over teh past 10 years is that Centuar prices have gone down fairly steadily from 11-12 to 9-10, Fulmar prices have gone down but Konsort prices haven't really moved.
All other things being equal (and of course they wont be) then I would wait until you find a good Konsort with all the major things having been done in the last 5 years (headlining, new engine, decent instruments, sails ).
When I decided to buy my own boat I looked at a few Fulmars and tehn decided that for the money (at the time + 50% on a Konsort) there was no benefit and I would just stick with the share in the Konsort). I had then given up looking seriously when I spotted one for sale in holland which appeared a reasonable price then I realised the price was actually in euros and with an exchange rate of virtually 1.5 it meant I had to go and see it and the rest is history.
I don't know about the griffon other than it replaced the Centuar I think.
Have you thought about syndicate ownership -pay a quarter of all costs.
Regards
Andrew
Interesting Q wrt Centuar and Konsort.
I am a minority co-owner of a Konsort because the syndicate includes my father and taht syndicate moved up from a Centuar and at teh time my father didn't want to put more money in to upgrdae to a larger boat, so I came on board to help out. In practice I now only use the Kponsort once a year.
The previous boat the syndicate had was a Centuar - I wasn't involved in taht and had little to do with it. From what the syndicate said I can only say that the Konsort is much better and bigger. As with all boats teh extra 3 foot isn't 3 foot stuck on the end but 3 foot added into the middle plus a foot or so wider. If you can afforrd the Konsort then go for it, but if you can't then it is very common for people to start their boat ownership with a Centuar and then later move up the westerly chain.
One thing I have observed over teh past 10 years is that Centuar prices have gone down fairly steadily from 11-12 to 9-10, Fulmar prices have gone down but Konsort prices haven't really moved.
All other things being equal (and of course they wont be) then I would wait until you find a good Konsort with all the major things having been done in the last 5 years (headlining, new engine, decent instruments, sails ).
When I decided to buy my own boat I looked at a few Fulmars and tehn decided that for the money (at the time + 50% on a Konsort) there was no benefit and I would just stick with the share in the Konsort). I had then given up looking seriously when I spotted one for sale in holland which appeared a reasonable price then I realised the price was actually in euros and with an exchange rate of virtually 1.5 it meant I had to go and see it and the rest is history.
I don't know about the griffon other than it replaced the Centuar I think.
Have you thought about syndicate ownership -pay a quarter of all costs.
Regards
Andrew
theoldplucker
Well-Known Member
There is also the Westerly Merlin to throw into the pot, replacement for the Konsort.
The difference is massive, a Centaur is a bobby coastal tub, the Fulmar is a proper offshore yacht though a tad too lively if used solely for that role.
Look at their displacements 2.7 tons (Centaur) v. 4.5 tons (Fulmar).
There comes a point where you need to switch off your computer and do some leg work to find the right boat for yourself.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
Lots of info about Konsorts, Centaurs, Merlins, Griffons and Fulmars in the Yachtsnet archives - http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives.htm - scroll down to 'Westerly' at the bottom.
awelch5
New Member
All, thanks for your comments, would like Fulmar/Kosort, but finances/usage may mean they are out of my league and I have to consider the Centaur/Griffon.
Does anyone know the dimensions of the cabin double bed and forward cabin in the Konsort? And how these compare to the Centaur? (I know there are 3 layouts in the Centaur.)
How much useage we can get from the boat, how many weekends (maybe 1 in 4 or 5 in season), holidays, long weekends, is a consideration for how much to spend on it. Finding it difficult to reconcile this one.
How do other people assess this usage / cost question?
Onia - thanks for the comments, the forcabing being bigger is useful for me being 6'2", and useful if the children sleep up there. Sounds like you got a good deal on the Fulmar, getting it for less than a Konsort, maybe a route for me? I can handle most jobs, (probably not osmisis or keel re-seating though)
I had not considered shared ownership, not sure if people might end up wanting access at the same times, school holidays, bank holidays, e.t.c. I guess the euro rate at 1.2 makes the French/Dutch owned boats not that attractive now? I think you a right about trying to get a boat with the major jobs done (headlining, new engine, decent instruments, sails, osmisis, keels bedded, rigging e.t.c.), the reality is probalbly somewhere in between, they will have some of the jobs done but not all.
Theoldplucker - I have not looked at the Merlin yet, will take a lok
Jonjo5 - I think the Fulmar is out of my price range anyway (guessing you might have one though from your comments?). I do need to look at some boats soon, but am still researching as much as I can on the web, and hoping that I can harnes the opinions/knowledge of fellow forum members to steer me in the right direction. I also don't want to waste sellers time at the moment, as I am not sure what I want.
Bajansailor - I agree that site is a good find, I had seen it before and they archive previous boats, they always seem to have good pictures of the interiors.
Does anyone know the dimensions of the cabin double bed and forward cabin in the Konsort? And how these compare to the Centaur? (I know there are 3 layouts in the Centaur.)
How much useage we can get from the boat, how many weekends (maybe 1 in 4 or 5 in season), holidays, long weekends, is a consideration for how much to spend on it. Finding it difficult to reconcile this one.
How do other people assess this usage / cost question?
Onia - thanks for the comments, the forcabing being bigger is useful for me being 6'2", and useful if the children sleep up there. Sounds like you got a good deal on the Fulmar, getting it for less than a Konsort, maybe a route for me? I can handle most jobs, (probably not osmisis or keel re-seating though)
I had not considered shared ownership, not sure if people might end up wanting access at the same times, school holidays, bank holidays, e.t.c. I guess the euro rate at 1.2 makes the French/Dutch owned boats not that attractive now? I think you a right about trying to get a boat with the major jobs done (headlining, new engine, decent instruments, sails, osmisis, keels bedded, rigging e.t.c.), the reality is probalbly somewhere in between, they will have some of the jobs done but not all.
Theoldplucker - I have not looked at the Merlin yet, will take a lok
Jonjo5 - I think the Fulmar is out of my price range anyway (guessing you might have one though from your comments?). I do need to look at some boats soon, but am still researching as much as I can on the web, and hoping that I can harnes the opinions/knowledge of fellow forum members to steer me in the right direction. I also don't want to waste sellers time at the moment, as I am not sure what I want.
Bajansailor - I agree that site is a good find, I had seen it before and they archive previous boats, they always seem to have good pictures of the interiors.
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Me own a Westerly
hell would have to freeze over, nice boats but the Westerly Owners Association would never let me in.I have sailed a Fulmar for a couple of days and found the performance quite lively for a design of that period and bearing the Westerly marque. For mixed family day sailing and offshore usage it would be fine.
From a livability point of view the difference between a Centaur and Konsort is more than you might imagine. Bit like living in a cub scout ridge tent and then a caravan.
If you have money burning a hole in your pocket don't be coy about getting out there and viewing. Best start with brokers and viewing examples within a few 100m of their offices. At the sub £30k end of the market they will usually hand the keys over and let you view at your leisure.
If in the Solent area, Deacons at the top end of the Hamble and Hamble Point are good starting points for window shopping. Your perceptions will change quickly after a weekend of two.
Great Harry
New Member
Onia - thanks for the comments, the forcabing being bigger is useful for me being 6'2", and useful if the children sleep up there. Sounds like you got a good deal on the Fulmar, getting it for less than a Konsort, maybe a route for me? I can handle most jobs, (probably not osmisis or keel re-seating though)
I am 6'6" and also looking at Westerleys. I have tried out the forecabin in the Konsort and the Fulmar and the Konsort definitely wins out. Even thoiugh the I can lay full length in the forcabin of the Fulmar theres not a lot of room at the pointy end; the Konsort cabin is much roomier. I also dont think the extra space elsewhere is worth the extra marina fees.The Konsort feels like a very practicable and workable boat. So what if it doesnt sail as well as the Fulmar, theres always a boat out there that sails better than yours. Konsorts (like Fulmars) have a reputation for being safe, seaworthy and reasonably quick and thats good enough for me.
I am now looking for a good Konsort in earnest. I am looking for a later model without the flimsy lift up table but the sturdy fixed one.
My only quibble is that I can get behind the chart table easily enough, but getting out again is another story (a diet in order I think).
i found these things out by going and looking at the boats. I have now rejected what might seem like good alternatives (eg moody 31 MkII) because they do not fit my particular requirements, I would have know this until I started going aboard the boats and seeing for my self
Cheers
Damon
I am 6'6" and also looking at Westerleys. I have tried out the forecabin in the Konsort and the Fulmar and the Konsort definitely wins out. Even thoiugh the I can lay full length in the forcabin of the Fulmar theres not a lot of room at the pointy end; the Konsort cabin is much roomier. I also dont think the extra space elsewhere is worth the extra marina fees.The Konsort feels like a very practicable and workable boat. So what if it doesnt sail as well as the Fulmar, theres always a boat out there that sails better than yours. Konsorts (like Fulmars) have a reputation for being safe, seaworthy and reasonably quick and thats good enough for me.
I am now looking for a good Konsort in earnest. I am looking for a later model without the flimsy lift up table but the sturdy fixed one.
My only quibble is that I can get behind the chart table easily enough, but getting out again is another story (a diet in order I think).
i found these things out by going and looking at the boats. I have now rejected what might seem like good alternatives (eg moody 31 MkII) because they do not fit my particular requirements, I would have know this until I started going aboard the boats and seeing for my self
Cheers
Damon
oldfatgit
Well-Known Member
On our Konsort (now sold and still looking great), the heads of the bolts that hold the transom hung rudder came off when some masking tape was removed one winter. Replaced bolts, which was easy, and off we went.
dulcibella
Well-Known Member
Impartial view!
I've never owned a Konsort - I'm a long-keeler addict (current boat a Rustler 36) However, I've sailed a lot over the years with a friend who is on his second Konsort (first was sold because jointly owned, not because of problems). If you want a shoal-draft boat, the Konsort sails well, has no obvious vices, is comfortable and incredibly spacious for a 30 footer. Good decision to buy one!
I've never owned a Konsort - I'm a long-keeler addict (current boat a Rustler 36) However, I've sailed a lot over the years with a friend who is on his second Konsort (first was sold because jointly owned, not because of problems). If you want a shoal-draft boat, the Konsort sails well, has no obvious vices, is comfortable and incredibly spacious for a 30 footer. Good decision to buy one!
Mrs FG
Well-Known Member
28'10", actually, but incredibly spacious for the LOA.
Hanked on headsail and feathering prop made ours perform better than any Bavaria I've seen, for less money (and overhearing the "They've got their engine on... no they haven't" conversations going into Pompey was worth every penny of what the feathering prop cost).
richardbrennan
Well-Known Member
In answer to Andrew, the Fulmar is a much more performance oriented yacht than the Konsort, it is also larger at 32 feet, most were fin keeled but some were bilge and also apparently sail very well. Many sailing schools bought Fulmars and they have an excellent reputation for being able to take any weather that is thrown at them, but then the Konsort has a good reputation for looking after the crew as well. There is a lot of information on the WOA website and you do not need to be a member to access most of it.
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