Westerly Headlining, contact adhesive

D

DavidGrieves

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West Cumbria, Cumbria
www.wsandba.co.uk
Hi All

I'm about to assist with renewing headlining on a Westerly. But owner wants to use PVA instead of contact adhesive.

Question is, do modern foam backed linings deteriorate like the old westerly ones did. And are modern contact adhesive better than the stuff that was used 30+ years ago?


Cheers

David
 
DavidGrieves said:
Hi All

I'm about to assist with renewing headlining on a Westerly. But owner wants to use PVA instead of contact adhesive.

Question is, do modern foam backed linings deteriorate like the old westerly ones did. And are modern contact adhesive better than the stuff that was used 30+ years ago?


Cheers

David
Click to expand...

PVA is the glue to use when sticking the foam backed vinyl on to ply panels. No debate!

Not so sure about using on to GRP though. ITYWF that Hawke House still recommend a combination of SAF 111 contact adhesive and Trade Tack spray adhesive.

http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/adhesives.html

If using a contact adhesive ensure good forced ventilation and use the appropriate mask http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/adhesives/adhesive-application/protective-respirator-mask.html


I lined my boat when I built it and relined it 20 years later ................. my advice is don't get involved, esp if you have no previous experience of the job.
 
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Hi David,

the subject of Westerly headlinings comes up quite often, it may be worth trying the not-so-wonderful search facility on here, or even googling ' westerly headlining ' or similar which could well find old threads faster.

I'm afraid I don't know which adhesive to use as I've not owned a Westerly and my boat uses wooden headlining.

The other usual reply is ' have you asked the Westerly Owners Association ? ' .
 
Thanks for the reply Vic

I have done head linings in a few boats before, used Hawke House 111 and high temp spray contact adhesive. Found it easy to use and had great results. Served my time as a joiner (bench, site, hotel & bar fitting, shop fitting) and have re fitted several yacht interiors.

I was just looking for a bit of reassurance and tech info to persuade owner to use some contact adhesive.

How long do you think modern contact glues will last on foam backed linings?

Regards

David
 
DavidGrieves said:
How long do you think modern contact glues will last on foam backed linings?
Click to expand...

Last winter, I phoned and emailed all the major adhesive manufacturers, primarily to try to find a water based one which would stick to grp. No luck and none (except for TGP who do a specialised mix for Hawke House) would guarantee their solvent contact adhesive with plasticised vinyl on grp as the plasticiser migrates and degrades the adhesive over time.
 
We did the headlining on our Cobra 850 twenty years ago. We used Evo stick and both got high as kites. Marvelous. Best ten quid I spent.:)
 
VicS said:
PVA is the glue to use when sticking the foam backed vinyl on to ply panels. No debate!

Not so sure about using on to GRP though. ITYWF that Hawke House still recommend a combination of SAF 111 contact adhesive and Trade Tack spray adhesive.

http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/adhesives.html

If using a contact adhesive ensure good forced ventilation and use the appropriate mask http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/adhesives/adhesive-application/protective-respirator-mask.html


I lined my boat when I built it and relined it 20 years later ................. my advice is don't get involved, esp if you have no previous experience of the job.
Click to expand...

That is all totally correct. PVA is superb if you are working downhand on a ply panel which you will attach later. It is no good for attaching direct to GRP as it takes time to set and the lining won't stay up for long enough. It does a superb job on ply though and wont degrade the foam backing. The problem is that most contact adhesives work OK direct to GRP but the toluene solvent in them degrades the foam backing after time which is why so many boats need headlining replaced. The best advice is to only use solvent adhesives where absolutely necessary on small areas where its not possible to attach a ply panel. For the ply panels apply PVA to panel and place lining over when flat on the floor. Roll down evenly with a large decorators lambswool roller giving about an inch spare all around. DONT use your hands as you will leave indentations that won't come out. Leave to dry overnight. Next day turn over panel and carefully remove foam from the surplus edges, fold over and staple with STAINLESS staples. the finished panel can either be held in place with high strength Velcro or screwed to the inner skin of a foam cored deck with screws ensuring that the length does not impinge on the outer skin and finish the screw heads off with buttons covered in the same headlining. (Hawke House will make these for you if you need) In between the panels where they join stick a thin strip of headlining with contact adhesive before you screw the panels up ensuring that the panel holds it in place on either side once in place. I have finished 6 boats (2 of them catamarans) this way and never had a failure. The finished job will look very professional. The only bit you will need practice to perfect is stretching the lining around corners and stapling down. Try a few test pieces first. You will soon get the hang of it! Good luck.....
 
Bluenote2 said:
We did the headlining on our Cobra 850 twenty years ago. We used Evo stick and both got high as kites. Marvelous. Best ten quid I spent.:)
Click to expand...

I somehow convinced myself that a dust mask would be good enough protection from the fumes until the glue pot grew a pair of legs and starting running around the boat shouting 'chase me'!! :)
 
Another approach is not to use foam backed vinyl.

I applied Hawke House double sided self-adhesive closed cell lining panels to the cabin, then reapplied the old headlining to the other side self-adhesive (after I had vigorously scrubbed and vacuumed the old foam off the back of the old headlining).
Presto, no fumes, no hallucinations, and no need to buy new headlining.
 
Bluenote2 said:
We did the headlining on our Cobra 850 twenty years ago. We used Evo stick and both got high as kites. Marvelous. Best ten quid I spent.:)
Click to expand...

I used ThixoFix solvent type of contact adhesive in a small stern cabin and ended up with severe jaundice caused by the solvent (toluene) attacking my liver. Was in hospital for a month, lost two stone, was off work for three months and could not drink alcohol for about three years.

If you are going to use any solvent adhesive, wear an organic filter mask. I didn't and I suffered the above consequences.
 
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