Westerly Griffon leak from gas locker

[Polonius]

I've been having a slow accumulation of fresh water in the bilge of my Mk. 1 Griffon that seems to be coming from the aft of the port side of the cockpit. I suspect that the gas locker is involved.

From what I can see of the WOA Facebook page, I'm not the first person to have this problem (I'm not on Facebook so I can't follow up the discussion there).

Has anyone here solved this problem? My guess is that the plastic piece that surrounds the locker lid will need to be removed and re-bedded. Hopefully this can be done without having to maneuver my ample frame around the back of the fuel tank to reach the internal fixings.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

From my experience of the Griffon (25 years) the nuts will probably be glassed over. This is how it is for the cockpit locker, stanchions, rubbing stroke, toe rails, etc.

I would consider putting a hatch into the aft of the quarter berth - something I have thought of doing to get access to the big void below the gas locker.

 

[justanothersailboat]

The gas-locker insert is screwed down to the cockpit and there is sealant between locker and cockpit that perishes, letting rainwater in. Usually the gas locker is bolted on so you probably need to enlist help and tackle it from both sides. Unlike nearly everything else in the Griffon the nuts are usually (always?) not glassed over at the back. Unfortunately the cockpit locker nuts are, and it can suffer the same problem :-(

I am middling sized but I didn't find crawling behind the fuel tank too bad really. It's a big dead space and I wish I could exploit it somehow. Reaching up into the transom from there (for something else) was a bit grim.

PS... the WOA have a nice non-Facebook forum for members.

 

[Polonius]

Thanks for the replies!

I've had the same thought about opening up all of the unused space for easier access. Either through a hatch at the aft end of the quarter berth or by somehow making the entire wood panel removable.

I'll try to wrangle myself around to have a look at the situation later today.

Will give the WOA a look as well.

 

[mickywillis]

Thanks for the replies!

I've had the same thought about opening up all of the unused space for easier access. Either through a hatch at the aft end of the quarter berth or by somehow making the entire wood panel removable.

I'll try to wrangle myself around to have a look at the situation later today.

Will give the WOA a look as well.

As a temporary measure, run a bead of sealant around the outside edge of the gas locker and see if you are still getting a leak? use a non setting, easily removeable sealant though, as when you come to do it properly, you dont want to spend ages getting it off! I removed my gas locker off Basil about 3 years ago, the original sealant had started to fail. All the stainless screws came out easily, as others have said, the nuts are glassed in. Mine were all about M5 size AFAIR, pan head slotted types, appx 25mm long. I refitted them an used Coppaslip on them in case they need removal in future. The locker itself was a bit stubborn to get out, so used various thin bladed tools to prise the GRP moulding away from the cockpit seat and side walls. Take it carefully, it will come away, but dont use too much force otherwise you stand a chance of cracking the gas locker moulding. Take the opportunity to replace the hinges at the same time as well! I used a polyurethane type sealant around the flange face and so far, no leaks. PS, you dont need to go inside the hull of boat to do the job, unless the bolts seize and the glassed in nuts need replacing. May also need to consider making locker deeper or modifying it to accept the 6Kg gas cylinders if you currently use 4.5/4.9Kg Calor Gas ones?

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

Thanks for the replies!

I've had the same thought about opening up all of the unused space for easier access. Either through a hatch at the aft end of the quarter berth or by somehow making the entire wood panel removable.

I'll try to wrangle myself around to have a look at the situation later today.

Will give the WOA a look as well.

Any photos will be gratefully received.

 

[Polonius]

Thanks, that's useful advice, and agrees with what I saw from looking inside.

Removed the panel between the quarter berth and the engine and stuck my head around. A few drops of water hanging off of the bottom of the gas locker. The one bolt that I could see wasn't glassed and also didn't have a nut on the end. Hmm...

Outside, I discovered that some of the bolts were finger tight at best. Some of these could be tightened, but others just kept turning and turning.

Took one of the bolts out to see what was going on and the washer disintegrated. Unscrewed without any bother though.

Will run some sealant around next chance I get. Gas locker is already adapted for the the little camping gas cylinders.

I think I've also found another leak from the starboard cockpit drain, but can't get a close up look without unpacking the cockpit locker so that will have to wait.

I'll post some pictures when I can.

Thanks for all the replies, guys!

 

[Polonius]

Duplicate post

 

[justanothersailboat]

mickywillis - interesting that yours had sufficient glassing in that you didn't have to remove the nuts at all! Very handy if so. All my glassed in fittings, the nuts turn freely under the glass and resin and it all has to be dug out :-(

Polonius - sounds like a good start, good luck! Cockpit drains can definitely be a weak spot too, unfortunately.

 

[Polonius]

Well, at least I'm not in any danger of running out of things to do!

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

As a temporary measure, run a bead of sealant around the outside edge of the gas locker and see if you are still getting a leak? use a non setting, easily removeable sealant though, as when you come to do it properly, you dont want to spend ages getting it off! I removed my gas locker off Basil about 3 years ago, the original sealant had started to fail. All the stainless screws came out easily, as others have said, the nuts are glassed in. Mine were all about M5 size AFAIR, pan head slotted types, appx 25mm long. I refitted them an used Coppaslip on them in case they need removal in future. The locker itself was a bit stubborn to get out, so used various thin bladed tools to prise the GRP moulding away from the cockpit seat and side walls. Take it carefully, it will come away, but dont use too much force otherwise you stand a chance of cracking the gas locker moulding. Take the opportunity to replace the hinges at the same time as well! I used a polyurethane type sealant around the flange face and so far, no leaks. PS, you dont need to go inside the hull of boat to do the job, unless the bolts seize and the glassed in nuts need replacing. May also need to consider making locker deeper or modifying it to accept the 6Kg gas cylinders if you currently use 4.5/4.9Kg Calor Gas ones?

If you lower the gas locker floor it will be below the level of the cockpit floor, so there will be a place for gas to pool if there is a leak.

 

[Polonius]

If you lower the gas locker floor it will be below the level of the cockpit floor, so there will be a place for gas to pool if there is a leak.

Good point. But it's already converted to the smaller, 2.75kg campingaz butane cylinders, so not a concern at the moment. There's a wooden base with some pieces screwed in to stop the smaller cylinder sliding around.

 

[justanothersailboat]

I considered building a taller locker lid instead - then making a waterproof, closed cell cushion for it, for me to perch on while on that tack

Had too many other things to fix though!

 

[LittleSister]

Are you sure it is the locker/cockpit joint that's leaking, and not the locker drain (assuming it has one)?

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

Are you sure it is the locker/cockpit joint that's leaking, and not the locker drain (assuming it has one)?

The locker drains into the cockpit.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

Good point. But it's already converted to the smaller, 2.75kg campingaz butane cylinders, so not a concern at the moment. There's a wooden base with some pieces screwed in to stop the smaller cylinder sliding around.

Am currently sticking with Calor 4.5 as I have one full one, one part used, and the means to refill.

Will take a view on whether to move to FloGas when I have to refill a bottle, but I recon that is 2 or 3 years away with my usage.

To fit a FG bottle I have thought about cutting a hole in the floor of the gas locker and fitting a chunky block of wood below with a circle cut into it to take the ring on the bottom of the bottle. So nowhere for any leaked gas to pool.
This should drop the bottle down enough to shut the lid.
The biggest issue I have is that FG have 2 or 3 different bottle designs in circulation, so my design would have to have some flexibility.

 

[mickywillis]

If you lower the gas locker floor it will be below the level of the cockpit floor, so there will be a place for gas to pool if there is a leak.

You can drain out of the transom with a 1 way valve fitted if above the waterline. Or use an "elephants trunk" if going out below waterline? Similar to that used on RIBS to drain cockpit floor when moving.

 

[Andrew_Trayfoot]

You can drain out of the transom with a 1 way valve fitted if above the waterline. Or use an "elephants trunk" if going out below waterline? Similar to that used on RIBS to drain cockpit floor when moving.

Not a bad idea to add an extra drain.
Will add it to my list of possible solutions to the Great Calor 4.5kg scandal.
Thanks

 

[Tranona]

You can drain out of the transom with a 1 way valve fitted if above the waterline. Or use an "elephants trunk" if going out below waterline? Similar to that used on RIBS to drain cockpit floor when moving.

The drain must be above the waterline and no one way valve.