Westerly Fulmar - Only Estuary/Coastal capable?

[Amp1ng]

I'm currently in the market for a Westerly Fulmar twin keel. After perusing the current selection of ads for said vessel I have been supplied the particulars of what can only be described as a rather poorly maintained example. Included in the info pack was a recent Pre Purchase Inspection report compiled by a local surveyor presumably arranged by the broker prior to the boat going on the market. I am particularly intrigued by the scope of following opening statement in the report:

"This Westerly Fulmar GRP bermudian rigged mast head sloop is an estuary / coastal rigged yacht with twin cast iron bilge keels and hanging dagger / spade rudder"

Does this mean that this particular example is only considered suitable for estuary/coastal sailing because of the age/spec of the rig or is it a more generalised view of the twin keel configured Fulmars? My understanding is that the Fulmar design fin or twin is well thought of and provides a tough and seaworthy boat with good manners and reasonable performance. My cruising grounds are mainly south coast but that doesn't mean to say I won't want to cross Biscay at some point and I would like to make sure my next purchase is up to the job.

 

[philip_stevens]

I know of one Fulmar (bilge keeler) that has crossed the Atlantic twice (both ways) - with the same owner.

He used to live on Alderney, and I met him a few times.

Look at my signature and sign up to the Westerly groups - forum or yahoo discussion group. Plenty of knowledge available.

 

[PeterGibbs]

I'm currently in the market for a Westerly Fulmar twin keel. After perusing the current selection of ads for said vessel I have been supplied the particulars of what can only be described as a rather poorly maintained example. Included in the info pack was a recent Pre Purchase Inspection report compiled by a local surveyor presumably arranged by the broker prior to the boat going on the market. I am particularly intrigued by the scope of following opening statement in the report:

"This Westerly Fulmar GRP bermudian rigged mast head sloop is an estuary / coastal rigged yacht with twin cast iron bilge keels and hanging dagger / spade rudder"

Does this mean that this particular example is only considered suitable for estuary/coastal sailing because of the age/spec of the rig or is it a more generalised view of the twin keel configured Fulmars? My understanding is that the Fulmar design fin or twin is well thought of and provides a tough and seaworthy boat with good manners and reasonable performance. My cruising grounds are mainly south coast but that doesn't mean to say I won't want to cross Biscay at some point and I would like to make sure my next purchase is up to the job.

The statement you print has no meaning I can deduce. Perhaps there is some echo here of the EU classification - Ocean, coastal etc. All meaningless because this vessel was launched before the Eurocrats thought of this dotty system.

As a past owner of a Fulmar for 9 seasons sailing all European coasts from the UK, I can attest this is a fine design capable of serious sailing. Models have made trans Atlatic crossings and, apart from size / crew carrying capability etc, there is no reason to consider the Fulmar limited in its capacity. Well over 600 were sold in the 70's and 80's.

Any mods to this particular vessel that cause concern have nothing to do with the intrinsic design qualities - some owners do horrible things to their boats and they are to be avoided, of course. You will find a model in good condition with just a little patience.

You could trawl the Westely Owners Association site for lots of insights into this design from current owners.

Final note: although I sailed the twin keel, unless you have a very specific need for this over a fin, you would be well advised to keep an open mind and buy one to best condition -keel configuration should not limit your choice.

Good luck!

PWG

 

[Searush]

Amp1ng

I suspect your surveyor is displaying his predjudices & ignorance. The original twin keel yacht (Bluebird of Thorne) designed for Lord Ravenscroft, cruised the World. Shane Acton (Shrimpy) also sailed the world in his 19' plywood Caprice cruiser. Twin keels alone do not make a vessel unseaworthy.

Fulmar's are an excellent & well respected design, but a neglected one may require anything from a good clean up & polish to a complete refit. Your survey report ought to identify specifics that need sorting out or where specialist advice my be needed. It is those recommendations that you need to pay attention to & know the cost of rectifying before youu start negotiating. The opening comments, to me, undermine the value of the report somewhat.

 

[H4B]

I'm currently in the market for a Westerly Fulmar twin keel. After perusing the current selection of ads for said vessel I have been supplied the particulars of what can only be described as a rather poorly maintained example. Included in the info pack was a recent Pre Purchase Inspection report compiled by a local surveyor presumably arranged by the broker prior to the boat going on the market. I am particularly intrigued by the scope of following opening statement in the report:

"This Westerly Fulmar GRP bermudian rigged mast head sloop is an estuary / coastal rigged yacht with twin cast iron bilge keels and hanging dagger / spade rudder"

Does this mean that this particular example is only considered suitable for estuary/coastal sailing because of the age/spec of the rig or is it a more generalised view of the twin keel configured Fulmars? My understanding is that the Fulmar design fin or twin is well thought of and provides a tough and seaworthy boat with good manners and reasonable performance. My cruising grounds are mainly south coast but that doesn't mean to say I won't want to cross Biscay at some point and I would like to make sure my next purchase is up to the job.

This type of statement is not uncommon , and made by surveyors about boats of a certain vintage. I have also seen a Fulmar described as a ' weekender'. Anyone with any experience of the Fulmar will tell you that both fin and twin keeled are impeccably well behaved yachts that will take care of you in any conditions. As others have said Fulmars have travelled far and wide. IMHO they make excellent cruising boats for two and upto 4 people as well as being a really good boat for club racing.

 

[Bajansailor]

Amp1ng, where is this Fulmar located?
I am just wondering if perhaps English is the surveyor's second language.
He said :
"This Westerly Fulmar GRP bermudian rigged mast head sloop is an estuary / coastal rigged yacht with twin cast iron bilge keels and hanging dagger / spade rudder"

Surely it is just as possible to get strong gusts of wind in estuaries and coastal areas as it is offshore? Yet his statement implies that the rigging is only suitable for coastal and estuary sailing.

And I am intrigued by the 'hanging dagger / spade rudder'.
A spade rudder is by definition cantilevered, or 'hanging'.
And where does the dagger come from?

Philip Stevens mentions a Fulmar that did a couple of trans-atlantics - this might be (but probably isn't, as I am sure many others have also been across the pond) one that we sailed against in the Mount Gay Regatta some years ago - she was a bilge keeler, and she hammered us, and many other boats in the regatta - everybody was wondering what sort of go-fast roller skates she had on.

 

[dt4134]

It depends what you mean by coastal cruising.

I've a boat that was described by the builder as a blue-water cruiser. I'll be the first to admit that she's only set up for coastal sailing. She's fun in a F8 in the middle of the Irish Sea, but I would see myself spending a lot more to get her truly ready for ocean sailing.

Maybe a Westerly Fulmar bilge keeler could cross the Atlantic with a lot of prep and a lot of sailing skill and a bit of luck, but would you seriously expect a surveyor to call her an ocean-going yacht. Maybe he would if seeking a career change and holding a grudge against his insurance company.

 

[awol]

I thought Fulmars were fractionally rigged, at least mine was.

 

[rhumlady]

I thought Fulmars were fractionally rigged, at least mine was.

Yes that was my thoughts. Does this surveyor actualy know his bow from his stern?

 

[Searush]

That looks like a masthead version to me. Was there not a cruising and a racing version?

 

[awol]

That looks like a masthead version to me. Was there not a cruising and a racing version?

How you can claim that without seeing the top of the mast beats me. Checking the handicaps there are only 2 quoted - fin and twin keel.

 

[dt4134]

How you can claim that without seeing the top of the mast beats me. Checking the handicaps there are only 2 quoted - fin and twin keel.

The rig in the photo looks like it may be fractional. Extrapolating the cap shrouds & backstay to where they meet the mast.

 

[30boat]

That looks like a masthead version to me. Was there not a cruising and a racing version?

No it's a fractional,you just can't seet the top of the mast in the photo.There was no cruising version with the Fulmar,only three keel configurations.Fin,twin and lift.

 

[Seajet]

I've not had a Fulmar, but was close to one at my club ( twin keel ) - she went and handled very well, and I'd certainly not hesitate to sail one - after the checks one would give any boat - across Biscay etc.

In fact I always thought her the best thing Westerlies ever made !

 

[samwise]

That looks like a masthead version to me. Was there not a cruising and a racing version?

You may be thinking of the Westerly Storm which came in cruising (smaller rig and bilge keels) and OD ( Big rig and fin keel). From the same stable and with similar hull form as the Fulmar and rock solid. Our Storm has "done" Biscay and a number of N. Sea crossings and collected a high rating when it featured in a recent (Dec issue) YM used boat test.

Surveyors always cover their backsides for fear of litigation and tend to paint a bleak picture.

 

[sailorman]

I'm currently in the market for a Westerly Fulmar twin keel. After perusing the current selection of ads for said vessel I have been supplied the particulars of what can only be described as a rather poorly maintained example. Included in the info pack was a recent Pre Purchase Inspection report compiled by a local surveyor presumably arranged by the broker prior to the boat going on the market. I am particularly intrigued by the scope of following opening statement in the report:

"This Westerly Fulmar GRP bermudian rigged mast head sloop is an estuary / coastal rigged yacht with twin cast iron bilge keels and hanging dagger / spade rudder"

Does this mean that this particular example is only considered suitable for estuary/coastal sailing because of the age/spec of the rig or is it a more generalised view of the twin keel configured Fulmars? My understanding is that the Fulmar design fin or twin is well thought of and provides a tough and seaworthy boat with good manners and reasonable performance. My cruising grounds are mainly south coast but that doesn't mean to say I won't want to cross Biscay at some point and I would like to make sure my next purchase is up to the job.

Google Shane Acton / Shrimpy

http://members.multimania.co.uk/marybonney/PDFs/Shrimpy.pdf

 

[wrongfontagain]

Westerly Fulmar Estuary/Coastal cruiser?

I'm currently in the market for a Westerly Fulmar twin keel. After perusing the current selection of ads for said vessel I have been supplied the particulars of what can only be described as a rather poorly maintained example. Included in the info pack was a recent Pre Purchase Inspection report compiled by a local surveyor presumably arranged by the broker prior to the boat going on the market. I am particularly intrigued by the scope of following opening statement in the report:

"This Westerly Fulmar GRP bermudian rigged mast head sloop is an estuary / coastal rigged yacht with twin cast iron bilge keels and hanging dagger / spade rudder"

Does this mean that this particular example is only considered suitable for estuary/coastal sailing because of the age/spec of the rig or is it a more generalised view of the twin keel configured Fulmars? My understanding is that the Fulmar design fin or twin is well thought of and provides a tough and seaworthy boat with good manners and reasonable performance. My cruising grounds are mainly south coast but that doesn't mean to say I won't want to cross Biscay at some point and I would like to make sure my next purchase is up to the job.

I've not sailed a Fulmar but have read a fine account of a circumnavigation of Ireland by Andrew Phelan (Ireland From The Sea, Wolfhound Press) and he was on a twin-keeled Fulmar. Well worth reading: www.amazon.co.uk/Ireland-Sea-Andrew...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293465375&sr=8-3

Good luck with your search.

 

[lw395]

Perhaps the surveyor is trying to say that being twin keeled, it is a better yacht for many estuaries than a deep fin model?
You can't beat a deep fin for going to windward, but twin keels can be better at other times!

 

[Robin]

Look, anyone even thinking of going to sea proper in anything other than a long keeled steel heavyweight is obviously barking mad. Surely there has been enough sage advice given here on this over the years. Yacht design ceased to have any commonsense around 1960, if not sooner and thereafter the caravan interior designers took over.

[/IRONYRANT]

 

[capnsensible]

Hiya. I reckon Fulmars are pretty tough and sail well too. I've sailed across Biscay in each direction on a fin keel version, plus got 9th in class..of about 300 odd.. in a Round The Island race 15 odd years ago. Like them.

Hope this helps!