Pagetslady
Well-Known Member
How close winded is your boat I struggle to get closer than 40 deg to the apparent wind angle.
Westerly Corsair tacking
- Thread starter Pagetslady
- Start date
William_H
Well-Known Member
I would have thought 40 degrees is pretty good to the apparent wind. That will make difference of tacks on the compass a bit less than 80 degrees tack to tack. olewill
TangaraToo
RIP
Jeanneau 389 I'm currently sailing sits happily at 35 degrees to apparent. She will go closer but speed drops significantly and leeway increases so not really worth it.
ETA- sails are only 3 weeks old and she has a deep fin keel which does help.
ETA- sails are only 3 weeks old and she has a deep fin keel which does help.
Concerto
Well-Known Member
A Westerly Corsair is a cruising yacht, not a racing yacht. The genoa tracks are fitted further off the centre line than a racing yacht. Most yachts can tack throught 80 to 100 degrees. You can check your angle by checking the difference between your compass course on each tack.
How close you can sail to the wind also depends on how well your genoa is set up and how out of shape it has become over time. A roller genoa is not as good as a non-roller genoa. The tension on the halyard and position of the genoa car can also change performance to windward.
Your perceived angle to the apparent wind is not a correct measure as this is a compound of the actual wind angle and the speed of the yacht. In lighter winds the angle will be wider than in strong winds. As mentioned before, check you tacking angle as this is accurately measured.
40 degrees apparent angle is fairly close, but I feel you may have been listening to claims at the bar from other owners. Try sailing up wind close to them and see if you are as close winded as they are.
How close you can sail to the wind also depends on how well your genoa is set up and how out of shape it has become over time. A roller genoa is not as good as a non-roller genoa. The tension on the halyard and position of the genoa car can also change performance to windward.
Your perceived angle to the apparent wind is not a correct measure as this is a compound of the actual wind angle and the speed of the yacht. In lighter winds the angle will be wider than in strong winds. As mentioned before, check you tacking angle as this is accurately measured.
40 degrees apparent angle is fairly close, but I feel you may have been listening to claims at the bar from other owners. Try sailing up wind close to them and see if you are as close winded as they are.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Condition of the sails makes a considerable difference. Our shallow-fin Sadler with excellent sails outpoints our friend's deep fin version of the same boat with elderly sails by 5 - 10 degrees.
Georgio
Well-Known Member
Don't forget that rig setup can also make a big difference. As the wind increases is there too much sag in the head-stay? If you already have stretched sails this additional sag will compound the problem.
I'd start by checking the rig setup then look at the sails, then I'd remember it's a cruising boat so decide if it's worth spending the time and money to improve matters or go and have a beer
I'd start by checking the rig setup then look at the sails, then I'd remember it's a cruising boat so decide if it's worth spending the time and money to improve matters or go and have a beer
Vegable
Well-Known Member
I was out yesterday in my Oceanranger - Corsair with sugar scoop stern - in 20kt winds and the best I could get is 45 to the apparent wind. Higher than that the speed fell off quite noticably.
Generally the best I can get is 60 to the true wind.
Mike.
Generally the best I can get is 60 to the true wind.
Mike.
Pagetslady
Well-Known Member
thanks for your replies I do race my Corsair, just friendly races around the cans I can hold my own off the wind but when tacking loose out as the other boats are able to tack closer than I can this is ok but when there is a couple of knots of foul tide against me the difference is huge, I guess I should get rid of my fully battened inmast Main, !!
Mike.
Mike.
MM5AHO
Well-Known Member
A good way to compare these is to track the course of a few yachts with AIS on one of the websites that show AIS positions and tracks such as Marine Traffic.
Have a look at the angle of tack of a variety of tacking yachts as shown my their track, and then consider the truth of the matter.
Have a look at the angle of tack of a variety of tacking yachts as shown my their track, and then consider the truth of the matter.
Georgio
Well-Known Member
Nice idea but that does not take into account many factors, the most important of which could be tide. Stbd tack could be directly up-tide and port tack could be across the tide. It could make a massive difference when just viewing the AIS tracks.
The best option is to find another identical boat then arrange some boat-on-boat training/tuning. However we are getting into racing territory here so a but much for the average cruising-boat owner I suspect. If you can manage to arrange it both boats will benefit and can be a lot of fun.
Last edited:
johnalison
Well-Known Member
That would only apply if he were tacking from 40 degrees to the true wind.
Pagetslady
Well-Known Member
The fact is the boats chasing me once we are beating to an up wind mark are able to beat me to the mark because they are noticeably pointing higher. This weekend we all used RaceQs and the tacking differences shows up really well.
Mike
Mike
doug748
Well-Known Member
That's interesting, what sort of boats are you racing against.. is it possible to put the animation up here?
William_H
Well-Known Member
IMHO it is generally the jib that makes the real difference to pointing. As said look at forestay sag and fullness in the luff part of the sail. You may also try pulling the sheeting in towards the mast (use a small tackle to try it). Make sure you have the best sheeting point fore and aft on the track. A partially furled jib is also detrimental to pointing.
A said the best way to determine pointing and speed is to sail near another similar boat. olewill
Vegable
Well-Known Member
I don't race very much in my Oceanranger. Just once a year in Abersoch KeelBoat Week. I too have in-mast reefing but not battened like yours. And my experience is exactly the same as yours. Beating up to the mark I'm heading off in my own direction usually on my own whilst everyone else is much closer to wind. If I try to follow them we just drift sideways and almost stop. I think it must be a characteristic of the design. (He says hopefully!)
I chatted to Jonathon Abrahams of JKA Sails here in Pwllheli and he suggested taking in just a couple of rolls of the main to see if that would help. He did explain why but it was a bit over my head! And I haven't tried it yet.
Mike
I chatted to Jonathon Abrahams of JKA Sails here in Pwllheli and he suggested taking in just a couple of rolls of the main to see if that would help. He did explain why but it was a bit over my head! And I haven't tried it yet.
Mike
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed. We typically beat at 30 - 33 degrees to the apparent wind on smooth water. I like to monitor our track on the plotter and if there is no current and the wind is lightish we can just make 90 degrees. If the wind is stronger we aim for about 35 degrees to apparent wind and lose out on leeway, giving typical tack angles of maybe 100 - 110 degrees on the plotter.
Pagetslady
Well-Known Member
Hi Mike.
I Have just had a new Genoa made, instead of the 150% huge think 17 years old at least, which was a sod to tack around the baby stay, which I have found the boat sailed better with a reef in the Genoa, so now I have a new one 120% and lighter sheets tacks much more easily, we only play at racing around the cans but it's fun and improves our sailing skills, we think so anyway.
Mike
Pagetslady
Well-Known Member
We are racing a cross section of cruising yachts Bavaria 32 with inmast main which is amazingly close winded, a Fasnet 34 with fully battened main also much closer than me, and a Sigma 33 the rest are a selection, oh I nearly forgot a Sunfast 40 with all the gear. Ranging in length from 30 ft to 35.
I will try and upload the screen shot of the tracks shown on RaceQs, it is a free app and is really great if all the boats are running it when racing, and the tracks from each boat are uploaded,somehow it runs them all together so you can run the race again on computer or TV, it takes a bit of learning, and doesn't seem to like Chrome prefers internet explorer. Google it it's great fun when a few boats run it together.
Mike.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that.
I always think everyone else is pointing higher, sometimes they are and making very poor speed, sometimes they are and going sideways, sometimes they are and they are murdering you. The app would sort it out, looks a great idea.
