Westerly Centaur - Weight for road towing

If you are not going far and can avoid causing alarm & despondency in the villages or lanes, you may very well not be noticed by the fuzz. But if you are spotted be prepared for significant hassle.

There is a fair chance that yer average bobby won't know the rules either (they are extremely complex & this thread may go on for some time) - if you are not causing an incident he will probably prefer to give you a rollicking and not fill in all the forms.
 
Lakesailor said:
and you need C1 +E on your licence.
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and you'll find that if you look at the restrictions on your licence, your C1+E entitlement is limited to 750kg trailers

you have to take a towing test to get that lifted and even then an a-frame trailer is limited to 3500kg MGW, you have to go to power brakes and a draw bar to go higher behind an LGV
 
Lakesailor said:
Yes. You are correct...
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Wasn't trying to score points. It's even worse for minibuses, where the situation depends on the licence, the size of the minibus, the purpose for which it's being used, the basis on which the driver is driving it, the nature of the organisation owning it and more.
 
Erbas said:
and you'll find that if you look at the restrictions on your licence, your C1+E entitlement is limited to 750kg trailers

you have to take a towing test to get that lifted and even then an a-frame trailer is limited to 3500kg MGW, you have to go to power brakes and a draw bar to go higher behind an LGV
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You appear to have misread the requirements http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067672.pdf

C1+E
Medium-sized vehicles
with trailers
As category C1 but with a trailer weighing more than 750kg. The total weight of the vehicle and trailer can’t weigh more than 12,000kg. The weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can’t weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle.
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Mavanier said:
At the risk of disappointing you, I would say a centaur is too heavy to tow by road using any normal vehicle. You'll need to get a lorry with a hiab and shift her that way, I would think.
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Yep thats what i did:

Picture%2520180.jpg

FWIW my Centaur as a bare hull and deck with everything removed (keels, rudder, engine, tanks, interior etc) weighed 1.8tons according to the banksman when lifting mine over my bungalow so i'd hazard a guess a fully ladened Centaur is going to weigh somewhere between 3.5 - 4 tons.

cheers
 
I pull my 25 with a discovery 2 but it only weighs around 3000 kg inc trailer and stuff and more stuff I am looking into going up to a centaur or same sort of size boat and was looking at the weight issues. I also have a 5,200 kg 7 seat crew cab Iveco daily and I look into using that to pull the boats but as it is a HGV it can only tow the unladen weight of the towing truck
so my Iveco at 5,200 gvw
can only tow 2,200 kg( it uvw)
but its plated as 8,750kg gross train work that out
I could have a few kg added to my unladen to take it to 3500 so I can tow 3500 but this is no better than my discovery


the answer my friends is fifth wheel units on the back of my Iveco
one thing you do gain by using a HGV is max load width is higher a bit like this one

 
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I towed my Westerly 25 from Penrhyn Dock (Bangor) to Stafford & then from Stafford to Dumbarton using a very early Range Rover, but that was around 1985 & laws have changed since then. I'd agree with Paul's 3 ton estimate. It wasn't a problem to tow, but I did need to change down a lot more than normal and top speed was around 50-60 IIRC. I used a lot of main roads & motorways and no-one bothered me, but one guy on the other side of the M-way ran into a stationary traffic queue while watching me. :ambivalence:
 
Lakey, have a look atf your driving licence

If you pass the C1+E test ( which few test centres if any actually offer) you can tow to the limits specified under construction and use etc

However, if your C1 entitlement is due to passing your car test pre-1997, you'll find code 107 against the C1+E category and if you look that up you'll find it restricts you to 750kg trailers

we found this out the hard way at the plant hire depot I used to work at!
 
Nope,my operators manual for my Disco states 4000kg with trailer vaccum brakes fitted to trailer.Huge expense for an extra 500kg towing capacity
 
earlybird said:
I once towed a Macwester 26 on a heavy trailer about 20 miles using a Series III Landrover. Never again!
Probably more illegal now than it was then!
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Mine was a Dawncraft Dandy, Wales to Burton with negative weight on the hitch and a 65 hp diesel Merc saloon

Still I bet you were driving the fastest Mac 26 CJ Roy ever built... :encouragement:
 
ghostlymoron said:
A Transit van can tow quite a weight, I'm told. I'm thinking of hiring one for my own towing exploits.
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I had a 3.5 Ton Transit. I put 50 bales of hay in it (1 Ton) and I towed a 3.5 Ton Trailer (800 kilo empty) on which I loaded 100 bales of Hay (2 ton) So both the Transit and the Trailer were under the permitted load.
While unloading at my business one of my customers (A Policeman) saw my load and advised that I was overweight.
He explained that whereas I could tow 3.5 Ton that was with the Transit "empty"
He also pointed out that on the vehicles "weight plate" there was a "Gross Train Weight" which when looked at would have put me over.
In the case of the Centaur I would lighten it, put it on the trailer, take it to a local weighbridge and weigh it,
If just below the 3500kilo gross you keep the weighbridge ticket to show any Policeman who may stop you that you are legal.
They used to say (in the Haulage Industry) that one was allowed up to a 10% overload.
This was not 350 kilo on top of a 3500 gross trailer but as my trailer weighed 800 kilo the permitted load was 2700 kilos so the 10% was 270 k.
Not a lot, but in France faced with an overweight boat and having been supplied with a brand new Trailer which would not (legally) carry the boat they sold me I had to make adjustments to the weight of the boat, which was successful. I also upped the weight which the trailer would carry as although the axles which were on the trailer were ok the tyres which they fitted were rubbish.
So with a bit of fine tuning you may get below the 3500 gross and when you come to sell the Centaur a matching trailer increases the value.
 
Erbas said:
Ok, yes but my point stands and is correct since 8.25 - 7.5 = 0.75 and I was pointing out that the suggestion of hiring a 7.5 tonner as a tow vehicle wouldn't fly

your ball sir! :)
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Fair point. However, there are other trailer restrictions which explicitly mention 750kg, so worth pointing out that for us oldies it's incidental to driving a 7.5 tonner. Probably why the overall restriction is the rather odd 8.25t anyway - it's basically a 7.5 tonner with a standard trailer.
 
Erbas said:
Ok, yes but my point stands and is correct since 8.25 - 7.5 = 0.75 and I was pointing out that the suggestion of hiring a 7.5 tonner as a tow vehicle wouldn't fly

your ball sir! :)
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I see your point but I raise you this (yes I know it's NI, but I understand them to have the same rules) http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/in...sized-vehicles-between-3-5-and-7-5-tonnes.htm
Subcategory C1+E: medium-sized goods vehicles 3.5 to 7.5 tonnes MAM plus trailer over 750kgs MAM

Subcategory C1+E allows vehicles to be combined with a trailer over 750kgs MAM. This is provided the combination does not exceed 12 tonnes MAM and the laden weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. In order to gain this entitlement category B licence holders have to first pass the theory and practical tests for subcategory C1 and then pass a further C1+E practical test. There is no subcategory C1+E theory test.

Although 18-year-old drivers are allowed to take a test for subcategory C1+E which will allow trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM to be towed entitlement is limited to a combination weight of 7.5 tonnes MAM until the driver reaches 21 years, at this time the balance of 12 tonnes MAM entitlement automatically becomes effective.
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I hope that the OP has absorbed all this stuff and is currently on the phone to the nearest Hiab (big) hirer!
Dave
 
JumbleDuck said:
Ah, but the rules Erbas and I have been batting around are for those of us wrinklies who have C1+E entitlement from passing a normal driving test before 1/1/97. We are limited to 8.25t total - those who sat a test for that category after 1/1/97 aren't thus restricted.
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Ere, who you calling a wrinkly? I resemble that remark!
 
From DVLA site

Category C1

You can drive vehicles weighing between 3,500 and 7,500kg (with a trailer up to 750kg).

Category C1+E

You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg, but the trailer - when fully loaded - can’t weigh more than the vehicle.

The combined weight of both can’t exceed 12,000kg.

So you can tow 6t with a 7.5t lorry provided the lorry is loaded up to 6t I assume. i would think that would be enough for a Centaur. Personally I wouldn't fancy doing it for any distance and would rather pay a professional with a HIAB to do it. Having looked at my license, I note that I'm no longer allowed to drive track laying vehicles (tanks?), steam rollers and agricultural vehicles which I seem to remember appeared on my license at one time. I can't remember if I was ever allowed to tow a trailer behind my tank!
 
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