Westerly 33 or Westerly Discus

[BurnitBlue]

We had a fin keeled W33 ketch for 14 years ...

I would be very happy with either a centre cockpit W33 or an aft cockpit Discus and either sloop or ketch, but personally would prefer the fin keel over the twin option.

I think this forum is having fun with me. I feel like I am in that party game where I am blindfolded, twirled round and round then pushed into the centre of the room with everyone yelling "here I am, come here"

Seriously though Robin, your 14 years experience counts for a lot and I have read your post with thanks even if it has put me back where I started from. Actually I am quite pleased because I fancy a ketch rig simply because I really do like your analysis of the easy reefing system of using the Mizzen as part of the sail plan to be reduced or used alone.

Just a quick question about the Ketch rig. The mizzen used alone with a staysail on the inner forestay (the one that goes to the forward coachroof) seems a balanced option in high winds. My question is whether the mast attachment of this inner forestay is a hook through a mast slot or is it through bolted. Can you remember if it is strong enough to hoist a sail on it.

Thanks to all once again.

 

[billiew]

Ketch rig

I can't comment on the choice between the W33 or the Discus,both good boats and you'll have to see which you like best.I would say though as the owner of a Solway ketch for the last 8 seasons I would definitely recommend the ketch .Jib and Mizzen when it blows up a bit is a very comfortable rig.I think you will find that anyone who has had a ketch will always want one.
Bill

 

[BurnitBlue]

I can't comment on the choice between the W33 or the Discus,both good boats and you'll have to see which you like best.I would say though as the owner of a Solway ketch for the last 8 seasons I would definitely recommend the ketch .Jib and Mizzen when it blows up a bit is a very comfortable rig.I think you will find that anyone who has had a ketch will always want one.
Bill

Thanks for adding your experience and recommendation to the ketch rig. Just thinking about what I wrote earlier about the inner forestay for balance, I now think that the combination would be totally unbalanced so your Jib and mizzen combination is probably the best.

I have no experience of ketch rig but I have picked up some comments in my travels. One of them was that it can be used alone to "heave-to" with a comfortable ride. Also a mizzen used alone at anchor is a "riding" sail to stop the ranging around that normally is blamed for breaking out a well set anchor.

Is the mizzen too big for this task even stand alone, or can it be reefed?

 

[Chris_Robb]

Oh well, back to the start of my boat search. Being a refugee from the long encapsulated keel squadron, my thoughts about a loose keel or cracked hull (Cris Robb) is a worry I can live without. To put it mildly.

However, it has occurred to me that the W33 single mast sloop with fin keel option does not attract any critics. The Discus suffers from cracked hulls, loose bilge keels, bridge deck fit for midgets, useless ketch rig. etc.

So the W33 single mast sloop with a fin keel wins by default. Thanks all.

Yes - search for a Fin Keel version, they are much sounder and why would you want a bilger in the med anyway?

 

[Chris_Robb]

I think this forum is having fun with me. I feel like I am in that party game where I am blindfolded, twirled round and round then pushed into the centre of the room with everyone yelling "here I am, come here"

Seriously though Robin, your 14 years experience counts for a lot and I have read your post with thanks even if it has put me back where I started from. Actually I am quite pleased because I fancy a ketch rig simply because I really do like your analysis of the easy reefing system of using the Mizzen as part of the sail plan to be reduced or used alone.

Just a quick question about the Ketch rig. The mizzen used alone with a staysail on the inner forestay (the one that goes to the forward coachroof) seems a balanced option in high winds. My question is whether the mast attachment of this inner forestay is a hook through a mast slot or is it through bolted. Can you remember if it is strong enough to hoist a sail on it.

Thanks to all once again.

Hi Just read your reply again - I never said anything about cracked hulls, but damaged bilge keels . As far as I know the Fin version is very good. Take note of what Robin says - an experienced hand and valued in this forum.

You mention the inner for-stay, I think you are referring to the baby stay. you should NOT set any sails on this. It is there in lieu of 2 lower shrouds balancing the 2 lower aft shrouds and is not designed to set sails on.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Yes - search for a Fin Keel version, they are much sounder and why would you want a bilger in the med anyway?

There are four W33/Discus boats for sale in the Med. Three are bilge keel one is fin but under offer.

I have made my mind up to buy a W33/Discus so I am seriously considering shifting my search to the UK. If they are such seaworthy sailing machines, getting to the Med will be a doddle in the summer.

The thought of already being in the Ionian at the start of the season is very tempting though.

 

[billiew]

Yes,you can set the mizzen to help settle her down at anchor,often helps.Surprising how long you can go without touching the helm also if the sails are set properly.My mizzen does have a reefing line but I have only used it once on a very rough trip home from Kent,with a few rolls on the genoa.I have been crew on a W33 ketch home from Ostende in a F8 westerly,not pleasant but a bl**dy good sea boat,as is the Discus of course.

 

[Tranona]

There is a lot to be said for buying a boat out there if that is where you intend to use it, but the boats you are looking at are not perhaps the ideal boats for the place. Do not take this as a criticism of your preference for a particular style of boat, but the boats you are looking at were designed for rough and tumble in northern waters rather than drifting around the Ionian. (I know it can get rough there, I have experienced it, but it is the exception and easy to avoid).

The fact that many old UK boats have ended up there is a quirk of fate - when they were built they were all that was available and if you wanted to do the "big trip" they were a good bet - particularly space and shallow draft to get through the canals. They are still good bets (if you can find one in decent condition) if the plan is to do the trip either through the canals or round the outside. They are also of course, relatively cheap which reflects in part their age and in part their lack of appeal (in the Med in particular) compared with more modern boats.

Looking at the site where the boats are advertised, I was surprised at the number of older boats for sale. In part I think this reflects the times. It is no longer cheap to live and keep a boat out there and I suspect many people are giving up and returning to the UK. One of the reasons I brought my boat back - costs have doubled in £ terms in the last 5 years, so although it is still cheaper to keep a boat there than in the UK it is no longer "really cheap".

I fear you might be disappointed when you see the boats based on what I saw of older boats in the years I was out there. The environment is not kind on boats and these will have had a hard life and probably maintained on a make do and mend basis by owners on a limited budget. I could of course be wrong - I have seen some super older boats, but they are the exception and usually not for sale! The ones that are for sale tend to be owned by well retired people who have had their 5-10 years of fun and are retirng, often reluctantly from that lifestyle.

 

[Robin]

I think this forum is having fun with me. I feel like I am in that party game where I am blindfolded, twirled round and round then pushed into the centre of the room with everyone yelling "here I am, come here"

Seriously though Robin, your 14 years experience counts for a lot and I have read your post with thanks even if it has put me back where I started from. Actually I am quite pleased because I fancy a ketch rig simply because I really do like your analysis of the easy reefing system of using the Mizzen as part of the sail plan to be reduced or used alone.

Just a quick question about the Ketch rig. The mizzen used alone with a staysail on the inner forestay (the one that goes to the forward coachroof) seems a balanced option in high winds. My question is whether the mast attachment of this inner forestay is a hook through a mast slot or is it through bolted. Can you remember if it is strong enough to hoist a sail on it.

Thanks to all once again.

The inner forestay is not supported with running backstays and is not for sail setting. We had a detachable inner stay from masthead to bow roller (just cleared the reefing drum) on which to set the storm jib, otherwise it stowed with a small tackle down to a shroud base.

An advantage with the mizzen in the cockpit is that the stays form a sort of 'cage' so there is always something near to grab a hold of!

Downwind, we learned it was a lot quicker to drop the main and avoid it blanketing the much bigger genoa, but the mizzen still worked as it was farther away.

We once sailed ours from L'Aberwrac'h to St Peter Port downwind with 50kts true in huge seas after a week of gales that were supposed to be over. Long story but we were stuck with a full main as turning to drop the main (my wish) would risk being rolled so full main and no genoa surfing at 10kts plius, not a drop of water came into the cockpit the whole way but I did have to hand steer for 13 hours as the pilot struggled with the huge seas. We were in company with anotherr W33 with twin keels but even with that wind were still about half a knot faster with the fin.

 

[KAL]

How is it done then? I would think turn round face the stern. Position both legs on the extended bridge deck as it you are doing push ups. Crawl backwards past the hatch then use the granny bars to lower yourself backwards down the steps into the cabin.

I think I would lower the sprayhood for access.

BTW I am 6 foot 6 inches so it is a point I should try a few times. But does it get easier with practice?

You really DO NOT have to worry in the least about access to the companionway over the bridge deck in a Discus. It is a doddle, even in a seaway. After the first half dozen times you won't even think about it.

We bought our 1980 Discus earlier this year and she's an amazing boat (sloop, fin keel). It is certainly the driest boat I've ever sailed. It's solid, easy to handle, spacious and very stable. SWMBO and eldest daughter previously suffered badly from mal de mer, but neither have since.

The sloop rig is a delight to handle; the boat is superbly balanced and carries very little weather or lee helm, if any. She can sail happily in a F6 in full sail with no reef, after which the leeway starts to kick in.

I've never sailed a ketch, so can't comment, but I don't think you can go far wrong with either of these boats. Just don't be put off by the bridgedeck. It's a great place to sit in the shelter of the large sprayhood, stays dry even in the rain and provides extremely handy access from the saloon into the aft cabin. I don't think I could stand having to go outside just to get to my bunk!

Good luck, anyway, whichever way you choose.