West to East Atlantic crossing advice

[sebastiannr]

Hi there,

So I fulfilled a lifelong ambition and made it across the pond on my 36 ft sloop, now living it up in Antigua.

Enough gloating, as I'm now faced with the rather more daunting prospect of getting back to the UK (I have to unfortunately).

My initial plan was to go up to Bermuda and beyond to catch the Westerly trades, but people I've been speaking to here are suggesting to go straight from here (Antigua area) to The Azores.

The prospect of having it on the nose for 10 days then another 5 of calms in the Azores high doesn't fill me great confidence though.

Does anyone have any experience of this passage or any other advice for getting back to the UK from the Caribbean (and don't say get a flight!)? Ideally I will be leaving early May, as I'm due to get married in August in Scotland.

Many thanks,

Seb.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

I have done it both ways .St Lucia to Horta in 2012 and Morehead City to Bermuda and then on to the Azores ,in 2011.both boats over 42 ft .
.Passage time 18 days leaving end April (windy passage ) and then early May (quieter trip).More on the wind work from St Lucia ,first 4 days but after that nothing too unpleasant mostly reaching,as we approached the Azores ,we had winds around 35knt for 3 days so no being becalmed !

Cindy

 

[GHA]

Only done it once, but no way I could have carried enough diesel to go direct, as it was I motored on and off a lot of the way on to Bermuda latitudes where finally picked up the westerlies to Adobe. What boat & crew?

 

[capnsensible]

Hiya Seb, hope you are enjoying Antigua, my favourite!

Have made the passage from the Windies to the Azores direct 3 times. Plus once from Miami and once from Turks and Caicos, both via Bermuda.

My personal view is that unless you are already up by those last 2 places, Bermuda, as nice as it is, takes a big dogleg to get there.

Regarding timing, have tried April direct (horrible), early May direct (horrible), early May via Bermuda (horrible) and early June via Bermuda (rice). Finally late June direct. Lovely.

No 2 years are the same, clearly, but for me, leaving later is better.

Have done Azores UK twice. Late May was kind of ok, worst of the weather in Biscay. Late June was mostly pleasant but again Biscay was interesting.

Oh, every time I go to the Azores it rains a lot!

Biggest winds were normally closer to the Azores, especially earlier. Up to 55 knots.

Boats, twice in our Moody 33, an Etap 39, Fontain Pajot 40 cat and a Warrior 40. Didn't matter, wet and windy is the same whatever boat!

Good luck, whichever route you choose!

 

[sebastiannr]

Only done it once, but no way I could have carried enough diesel to go direct, as it was I motored on and off a lot of the way on to Bermuda latitudes where finally picked up the westerlies to Adobe. What boat & crew?

High Tension 36

Solo, but my wife to be (who has been sailing with me for the last 9 months and did the crossing over here) wants me to advertise for a crew member, which I am considering.

 

[Roberto]

the trick is finding a balance between leaving early enough to avoid the beginning of the hurricane season, and late enough to have north Atlantic depressions sufficiently high in latitude as to avoid the worst.

The route has three "segments"
1. Go north-ish and negotiate the trades, you mostly gain in latitude
2. Choose how to go around the Azores high corner, if any,
3. Take care of North Atlantic depressions, you mostly gain in longitude

Climate-wise, April is (very) early, it is often chosen by commercial skippers having to be ready for the season in the Mediterranean, but the path of depressions is usually still very low in latitude (talking about climate).
During June, the first named tropical storms begin to wander, often with erratic paths; besides, there is less and less wind which means the possibility of a lot of motoring should be considered.
.
But then, climate is what you expect, weather is what you get
You may leave in April and have a nice passage, of leave during June and experience a similarly nice passage, or anything may go the wrong way and whatever you choose you may meet (very) difficult conditions. Statistics and reality.

A number of delivery skippers take another option: load up with 100s litres of diesel and go straight to the Azores through all the calms. A choice like any other.


Quite a few disasters I have seen there come from people who kept going their own way when *a lot* of factors were indicating a change in route was the most sensible decision. I'd say do not leave without a good weather coverage, either by yourself or someone ashore.

 

[chuckr]

we did it last year from antigua -- we left may 1 as we kept watching the long range wx forecasts and did not like what we saw before that -- actually 2 boats left a week before us and when we got to horta there were boat watches out for them - not good -

anyway it was a bit of a difficult year - we had good wind except 3 days of 25-35k at 50deg on the boat and another 3 days of constant 25-28k as we got caught between a hi and lo pressure system - but all in all it was an ok trip with wind on the boat at 50-60 deg all the way across - we met some delivery capts and professional capts that said that this was the worst year they had seen in a long time - there were no westerly winds - we only used about 18gal of fuel and that was to recharge batteries when we did not have a lot of sun to charge batteries and to motor the last 1 1/2 days into horta when we had no wind --

Oh -- when we passed bermuda we were 500nm east of it -

just watch the long range forecast and make your best judgement -

 

[macd]

Agree that the earlier the start, the more risk of bad weather once you've made ground north. Additionally, weather patterns in recent years seem to have been less predictable than hitherto, with the Azores high often failing to develop until later in the year.

Does the OP have any means of getting weather/routing info on passage? When I crossed from St Martin starting mid-May 2 years ago I was told to turn right at 32N, following that latitude for around 1000 miles with more than enough wind (passage time 19 days in a Rival 32). The only lull was for two or three days between the Trades and the Westerlies. Those crossing at a more conventional 38-39N got a right hammering.

 

[sebastiannr]

Does the OP have any means of getting weather/routing info on passage?

Yes I have a Yellowbrick satellite messenger, so I can receive textual info from someone back in the UK.

Thank you so much for all the top rate advice. It seems that this passage will have to rely on weather routing more than any other that I have done before.

If anyone cares to volunteer emailing me such weather / routing info during that time that would be amazing, I do have friends that could do it though I'm sure.

 

[Deleted member 478]

Solo, but my wife to be (who has been sailing with me for the last 9 months and did the crossing over here) wants me to advertise for a crew member, which I am considering.

Get hold of TCM from this forum. He's done it about eight times, with varied tactics.
There are hundreds of willing crew on www.desperatesailors.com.

 

[alant]

Hi there,

So I fulfilled a lifelong ambition and made it across the pond on my 36 ft sloop, now living it up in Antigua.

Enough gloating, as I'm now faced with the rather more daunting prospect of getting back to the UK (I have to unfortunately).

My initial plan was to go up to Bermuda and beyond to catch the Westerly trades, but people I've been speaking to here are suggesting to go straight from here (Antigua area) to The Azores.

The prospect of having it on the nose for 10 days then another 5 of calms in the Azores high doesn't fill me great confidence though.

Does anyone have any experience of this passage or any other advice for getting back to the UK from the Caribbean (and don't say get a flight!)? Ideally I will be leaving early May, as I'm due to get married in August in Scotland.

Many thanks,

Seb.

My last, was from Long Island in April/may to Azores, where we had dreadful weather.
One 'tip', when leaving Caribbean, was to head NNE & turn right when the barometer started dropping, hopefully then skirting around the top of the high.

 

[Neil_Y]

OK I've only done it once leaving St Martin 25th May, generally we had a good sail, 36 hours of a roughish storm 3 days from the Azores, but otherwise nice sailing.

We sailed up towards Bermuda but turned east 300-400nm from the island if I remember correctly, I have the plot on a chart somewhere, but pretty much what Alant suggested above. 19 days in a 12m boat.

The main thing I think is to give yourself time to explore the Azores don't just see it as a stopover, much as I love the Caribbean and particularly Antigua I'd still give myself more time for the Azores. We had a month there and it wasn't enough but we had to get back to UK.

 

[chuckr]

The main thing I think is to give yourself time to explore the Azores don't just see it as a stopover, much as I love the Caribbean and particularly Antigua I'd still give myself more time for the Azores. We had a month there and it wasn't enough but we had to get back to UK.

can not agree with this more -- first you will need some time to fix your boat in horta because something will break -- there is a good guy there john pierre who is quite good about helping or fixing boats -- then explore a bit - we ended up in tercera for about 10 days or more as the st john festival and boy was that fun -- azores are simply wonderful and dockage is inexpensive - so stay and enjoy a great place --

 

[Bobc]

One other comment on the Azores.

I seem to remember that in Horta, they only accept cash for fuel and docking, whereas in Tecera you can pay by card.

Do spend some time in the Azores, the people are lovely.

 

[phanakapan]

Hiya Seb, hope you are enjoying Antigua, my favourite!

Have made the passage from the Windies to the Azores direct 3 times. Plus once from Miami and once from Turks and Caicos, both via Bermuda.

My personal view is that unless you are already up by those last 2 places, Bermuda, as nice as it is, takes a big dogleg to get there.

Regarding timing, have tried April direct (horrible), early May direct (horrible), early May via Bermuda (horrible) and early June via Bermuda (rice). Finally late June direct. Lovely.

No 2 years are the same, clearly, but for me, leaving later is better.

Have done Azores UK twice. Late May was kind of ok, worst of the weather in Biscay. Late June was mostly pleasant but again Biscay was interesting.

Oh, every time I go to the Azores it rains a lot!

Biggest winds were normally closer to the Azores, especially earlier. Up to 55 knots.

Boats, twice in our Moody 33, an Etap 39, Fontain Pajot 40 cat and a Warrior 40. Didn't matter, wet and windy is the same whatever boat!

Good luck, whichever route you choose!

Please can I order late June direct/lovely. Only not wet and windy. Ta.

It's likely that this is what we will be doing this year- we are in Cape Town for the next 3 weeks or so, and will probably not make it up to the Caribbean until later rather than earlier.

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

Hi there,

So I fulfilled a lifelong ambition and made it across the pond on my 36 ft sloop, now living it up in Antigua.

Enough gloating, as I'm now faced with the rather more daunting prospect of getting back to the UK (I have to unfortunately).

My initial plan was to go up to Bermuda and beyond to catch the Westerly trades, but people I've been speaking to here are suggesting to go straight from here (Antigua area) to The Azores.

The prospect of having it on the nose for 10 days then another 5 of calms in the Azores high doesn't fill me great confidence though.

Does anyone have any experience of this passage or any other advice for getting back to the UK from the Caribbean (and don't say get a flight!)? Ideally I will be leaving early May, as I'm due to get married in August in Scotland.

Many thanks,

Seb.

It's a fairly common route for us - lots of people sail over and don't want to do the trip back themselves...

My advice is to set off and head on a comfortable course relative to the wind on a starboard tack. If you happen to get NE winds then I would divert to Bermuda, if nothing else for a good nights sleep and some fresh fruit and veg! If you get really lucky and experience SE winds then go onwards towards the Azores - Basically don't make the decision now, see how it is at the time and after 4 or 5 days from Antigua. You might even opt for a sail to St Maarten first for provisions.

If you do go to Bermuda be aware that it is expensive - so stock up as best you can in the Carib.

As mentioned, The Azores are stunning - I recommend a good couple of weeks there (if you can afford the time) whilst letting the UK weather warm up and improve from May to June.

I highly recommend that you have reliable forecasting equipment. I would never do this trip nowadays without a satellite phone and daily grib access. On my last crossing I met a few people from another reputable yacht delivery company in Horta; their sails where ripped and bits where hanging off the mast, they had all their bedding hung out on the boom to dry and they all looked a mess! They took the 'normal' route across and were hit by F10+ winds. We were a few hundred miles south of them when it happened enjoying 15-20 kts on the quarter. Had we not picked up the forecast we would have been with them!

It's a great trip (much more technical than the route west) and you will most likely experience a huge variety of conditions along the way.

Pete

 

[capnsensible]

Please can I order late June direct/lovely. Only not wet and windy. Ta.

It's likely that this is what we will be doing this year- we are in Cape Town for the next 3 weeks or so, and will probably not make it up to the Caribbean until later rather than earlier.

Hope it works out well for you!

 

[Bajansailor]

It's interesting reading the various different accounts above of passages back from the Caribbean.
I crewed on a delivery from here (Barbados) to England via the Azores in May / June 2012, and we were on a close reach for the first night after leaving, and then the wind came around to the SE and we were flying kites the whole way to Horta - that was an absolutely idyllic passage.
The next leg to Plymouth wasn't so much fun though, with a F9/10 behind us for the last few days.

We had a SPOT tracker (anybody following us could just look it up on the internet to see where we were) and a sat-phone, and Lenseman David of this parish was a star in providing us with very concise and accurate weather routing by text.
Each message had a limit on the number of characters that could be sent, so brevity was essential. We received a gem one day on the passage north to Horta - a terse text that simply said "Stop! Turn right! Bad wx ahead"
So we literally did as instructed, hung a 90 degree right turn and carried on with the kite (while complaining about how the wind had dropped......).
It was only later after we arrived in Horta, and saw boats arriving with damages, that we found out that if we had carried on heading north we would have sailed into the teeth of a hurricane - boats only 80 miles north of us at the time were being pasted by 60 knots.

I think that ideally you want to try and skirt around the west and north sides of the Azores High, and you will need good weather routing and forecasts for this.

 

[dk]

I did the crossing from Antigua leaving 31 May. Headed NNE for 4 days, then turned right. Had good run with 20-25kn wind until 2 days outside Horta, when we had 35-40kn until we arrived. Def advise good weather routing - we used Mailasail with an Iridium data receiver - well worth it and not expensive. Took us 17days in 40-footer.
Good luck. BTW, another crew took her on to the UK and had far worse weather conditions than us!
Last thing - enjoy the Azores while you're there, they're lovely.

 

[HunterWanderer]

I joined up with a group of mainly dutch boats in St Martin. We left together at beginning of May but they went direct to Horta and I went via Bermuda. Kept in contact with SSB which was great.
I had a great sail , spent 3 days in Bermuda and arrived in Horta a couple of days after them. I was singlehanded though in only a 30 footer.
They had had a difficult sail with a lot of headwinds and most of them wished they had gone via Bermuda.
Anchorage in St Georges Bermuda was free and the Waitrose supermarket is not too expensive.