West Marine Rocna recall notice
- Thread starter GrantKing
- Start date
maxi77
Well-Known Member
That does not look very good for ROCNA, it seems they have been caught out being very naughty. I wonder if we will hear from them on here again?
richardbayle
Well-Known Member
Oh no, not again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Downsman
Well-Known Member
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
In view of previous hijacking of websites in this ongoing debate, can we be sure this is genuine?
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
alahol2
Well-Known Member
"...it is certainly a “bummer” that Rocna produced anchors with steel of a lesser grade than that
called for on their website..."
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
Hate to be devils advocate, but........
Rocna say it is still strong enough.
So do Westmarine.
If it bends you get your money back or a new anchor.
So what's the problem?
It might not bend.
If it does bend that's better than breaking out and not resetting.
Yes, it's bad that they deliberately or stupidly mislead people, but has any harm really been done to customers. (of course I exclude the issues of employees which I cannot comment on and I have no knowledge of).
As I said- devils advocate
Rocna say it is still strong enough.
So do Westmarine.
If it bends you get your money back or a new anchor.
So what's the problem?
It might not bend.
If it does bend that's better than breaking out and not resetting.
Yes, it's bad that they deliberately or stupidly mislead people, but has any harm really been done to customers. (of course I exclude the issues of employees which I cannot comment on and I have no knowledge of).
As I said- devils advocate
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
Some people are gloating on here. I brought one of these anchors here in February before this all came to light.
I guess the problem is that we know that they are not made to the correct specifications but what we don't know is if it is enough of a problem to demand a refund. I feel a lot more secure than the Sou'wester it has replaced.
I have seen the photos of the bent anchors, but I am not convinced that if I return my anchor for exchange that the replacement will be of the correct material.
It would seem unlikely that the anchors would bend in anything other than either extreme conditions or that they were caught on a rock. I believe that YM is in the process of testing a Rocna I think I will probably wait until they publish their results and if they suggest returning it then that is what I will do.
The only fly in the ointment is the insurance position, what if the anchor bends in extreme conditions and the boat is damaged or lost will I be insured and the insurance company go after Rocna or will they refute the claim?
I guess the problem is that we know that they are not made to the correct specifications but what we don't know is if it is enough of a problem to demand a refund. I feel a lot more secure than the Sou'wester it has replaced.
I have seen the photos of the bent anchors, but I am not convinced that if I return my anchor for exchange that the replacement will be of the correct material.
It would seem unlikely that the anchors would bend in anything other than either extreme conditions or that they were caught on a rock. I believe that YM is in the process of testing a Rocna I think I will probably wait until they publish their results and if they suggest returning it then that is what I will do.
The only fly in the ointment is the insurance position, what if the anchor bends in extreme conditions and the boat is damaged or lost will I be insured and the insurance company go after Rocna or will they refute the claim?
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
I suppose the reassuring thing is that they bend, not break. However, if one bends on an extended cruise it's never going to set again, so you're up a creek without an anchor until you can a) get to an anchor shop or b) find a blacksmith who can beat it back into shape.
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
Under those circumstances would it be better to leave the anchor down and hope it bends back when the tide changes.
bbg
Well-Known Member
Wow, a lot of assumptions here.
First of all, this is not a recall. Just an information bulletin.
Neither West Marine nor Rocna says there is anything wrong with the anchors, or that they bend, or that there have been any reported problems. Just that, for a certain period of time, the specification that was reported on their website did not correspond to the anchors that were being sold.
There could be a reasonable explanation for this:
- Rocna, after doing extensive testing, realised that the stronger grade of steel was not necessary e.g. in destructive testing the failure mode was exactly the same with the two grades of steel. Rocna then changed their internal specification, but due to an oversight forgot to update their website.
There could be a sinister explanation:
- Rocna, in order to cut costs and without doing any testing, switched to a weaker grade of steel. Knowing that this might affect sales, they made a conscious decision not to change their website.
Of course there are a huge number of possibilities in between, but one has to remember there are two aspects to this story - the change of specification, and the failure to update the website. I have no idea about the first aspect, but experience tells me that one shouldn't jump to the conclusion of conspiracy when the explantion of incompetence (i.e. forgetting to update the website) is sufficient.
First of all, this is not a recall. Just an information bulletin.
Neither West Marine nor Rocna says there is anything wrong with the anchors, or that they bend, or that there have been any reported problems. Just that, for a certain period of time, the specification that was reported on their website did not correspond to the anchors that were being sold.
There could be a reasonable explanation for this:
- Rocna, after doing extensive testing, realised that the stronger grade of steel was not necessary e.g. in destructive testing the failure mode was exactly the same with the two grades of steel. Rocna then changed their internal specification, but due to an oversight forgot to update their website.
There could be a sinister explanation:
- Rocna, in order to cut costs and without doing any testing, switched to a weaker grade of steel. Knowing that this might affect sales, they made a conscious decision not to change their website.
Of course there are a huge number of possibilities in between, but one has to remember there are two aspects to this story - the change of specification, and the failure to update the website. I have no idea about the first aspect, but experience tells me that one shouldn't jump to the conclusion of conspiracy when the explantion of incompetence (i.e. forgetting to update the website) is sufficient.
aluijten
Well-Known Member
But why doesn't Rocna issue a decent statement about this? Why leave it up to distributor to come up with this bulletin. In my view Rocna is not very clever in their PR. Either they don't care or they hope it will all pass in a limited timeframe. The latter I'm not so sure of. Because of fora like these, the story will continue to be there indefinitely.
Why leave so much room for speculation?
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Out with the old, in with the new?
The Rocna website spec basically says, the anchor is stronger than the chain atttached to it----
Wow, Sherlock. I would bloody hope so !
Shame you can bend a long flat piece of steel so easily then, eh!
IF it were me and I wanted to stay in business, I would bring out the mk2 version 'redesigned, improved from customer feedback, the blah blah', spin it, whirl it, but don't let it bend anymore, sorted.
WestMarine certainly don't want to be sued for misinformation,or worse. You can be sure that they have been guided by their lawyers.
I have always found their stores and service to be consistently very good, by the way.
The Rocna website spec basically says, the anchor is stronger than the chain atttached to it----
Wow, Sherlock. I would bloody hope so !
Shame you can bend a long flat piece of steel so easily then, eh!
IF it were me and I wanted to stay in business, I would bring out the mk2 version 'redesigned, improved from customer feedback, the blah blah', spin it, whirl it, but don't let it bend anymore, sorted.
WestMarine certainly don't want to be sued for misinformation,or worse. You can be sure that they have been guided by their lawyers.
I have always found their stores and service to be consistently very good, by the way.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Those who followed other threads on the dubious commercial practises of Rocna will recall that an American member bought a Rocna from West Marine, took to a test lab which cut it into pieces, tested it and found it below published spec. Said member took the pieces back to West Marine, which refunded him the purchase price. Wow!
maxi77
Well-Known Member
The interesting question is if Rocna specified the higher strength steel in the first place, why, and how is the lower strength now OK when clearly it wasn't when the anchor was designed.
It in the best interpretation as if Rocna failed to adequately supervise their sub contractor or supplier allowing lower standard materials to be used and is trying to get out of replacing the lower spec items by telling the punters trust us we are Riocna. I for one would not like to wait until it fails to get a replacement.
Do you wish to trust a supplier who fails to apply suitable quality controls on it's products.
It in the best interpretation as if Rocna failed to adequately supervise their sub contractor or supplier allowing lower standard materials to be used and is trying to get out of replacing the lower spec items by telling the punters trust us we are Riocna. I for one would not like to wait until it fails to get a replacement.
Do you wish to trust a supplier who fails to apply suitable quality controls on it's products.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Especially as it kept boasting about the QC measures it had in place in China!
GrantKing
Well-Known Member
Its not about QC its about a deliberate and planned change to save money and misleading the customer into believing they are paying a premium for a higher quality product and then doing everything possible to not being made to admit it.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Sorry I was trying for once in my life to be generous, if what you say is true then it is not poor management in my opinion.
maxi
Well-Known Member
Had a large and new German yacht alongside me recently in the W Country, sporting a very new and very bent Rocna - now I understand!