West Kirby as a boat free zone?

[Searush]

On the recent list of potential conservation areas I saw Hilbre Island & West Kirby (at the mouth of the Dee Estuary) listed. Now, Hilbre Island is a bird & seal sanctuary and offers rather poor shelter anyway so it kind of makes sense, although I don't really see any potential damage from sailing, boating, line fishing or anchoring in the area.

But West Kirby has a big sailing club & extensive drying moorings for classic dayboats & small cruisers. It occupies a very small area of a massive expanse of drying sand (probably in excess of 30sq miles) and salt marsh & mud(probably another 40 sq miles). There is a channel starting at West Kirby that runs along the Wirral shore to Thurstaston & Heswall both of which have extensive moorings, plus the Dee Sailing Club.

Does any one have any information on what is proposed, what is seen as needing protection & what is proposed to protect navigation rights that can be traced back to Roman times?

 

[vyv_cox]

I'm not up to date on this but in the past there has been massive effort by the local population to uproot spartina grass that is spreading northwards from Neston and Parkgate from the West Kirby and Hoylake foreshores. This invasive weed effectively turned those two small ports into green fields within a generation. Presumably in a conservation area this action would be forbidden?

 

[Mr Cassandra]

They are building what looks like a very large marina in Wallasey, By Victoria parade.large enclosed dock close to the fort/ impressive building.Going there tomorrow will ask and report back

 

[Searush]

They are building what looks like a very large marina in Wallasey, By Victoria parade.large enclosed dock close to the fort/ impressive building.Going there tomorrow will ask and report back

That's interesting. Is it between the two Groynes (between the fort & the pier) recently built to retain the beach by the pier? There's a lot of sandstone there so I don't see it being that deep. The fort (actually it is a Battery) like the old lighthouse, is built on the Perch Rock. There are also big tides there & a NW'ly over the ebb can generate some "good" waves.

You're not looking at the old Marine Lake are you? That's only a few feet deep.

Quite a few speedboat races in that area too, launch at the slipway by the pier across the rocks & hard sand, the course seemed to be from the pier NW to near the lighthouse when I last watched 'em. That would be fun for yachts entering/leaving a marina.

 

[oldharry]

On the MCZ 'Interactive map' the West Kirby/Dee eastuary is designated primarily as an 'SAC area with marine components'. My understanding is that this largely reinforces existing conservation zones. It is not yet very clear whether any 'bottom protection order' is being considered - if so it could have serious consequences for the estuary, which I know slightly, having sailed from Heswall for a season 30 years ago.

Your best source of information would be to email: info@irishseaconservation.org.uk. The link on their website to 'information officers doesnt work.

 

[Searush]

Thanks, OH,

E-mail sent. I will post any reply I get.

I set up a mooring at Heswall (just upstream of the dog-leg in the channel) in 1982 & sailed off it for about 2 years before moving to Conway where we always spent our holidays anyway.

Steve K

 

[Mr Cassandra]

That's interesting. Is it between the two Groynes (between the fort & the pier) recently built to retain the beach by the pier? There's a lot of sandstone there so I don't see it being that deep. The fort (actually it is a Battery) like the old lighthouse, is built on the Perch Rock. There are also big tides there & a NW'ly over the ebb can generate some "good" waves.

You're not looking at the old Marine Lake are you? That's only a few feet deep.

Quite a few speedboat races in that area too, launch at the slipway by the pier across the rocks & hard sand, the course seemed to be from the pier NW to near the lighthouse when I last watched 'em. That would be fun for yachts entering/leaving a marina.

Hi
I did not go there to day but will tomorrow. When |I was last there about December they were digging out a VERY large hole next to the shallow marine lake about 40 foot deep X 250X 450.basin.Much larger than Conway this uses the existing seawall on the outside and the road on the inner looks as if you enter from the North ish. They had constructed a huge sandbank to keep the tide out between the (Battery) and the main road at the bottom of Victoria parade .They were also constructing what I believe to be a shopping/come visiting centre.

 

[Aries]

Is this it?

See the following link: www.camserv.co.uk/neptune/nb_phase2.htm

 

[AntarcticPilot]

That's interesting. Is it between the two Groynes (between the fort & the pier) recently built to retain the beach by the pier? There's a lot of sandstone there so I don't see it being that deep. The fort (actually it is a Battery) like the old lighthouse, is built on the Perch Rock. There are also big tides there & a NW'ly over the ebb can generate some "good" waves.

SNIP

I don't think sandstone would prevent the excavation of a marina. At Portavadie, the marina is dug out of some pretty tough metamorphic rock - I haven't looked closely enough to identify it, but something pretty tough and hard. The BGS' online geology viewer says it is Beinn Bheula Schist formation - metamorphosed sandstone and mudstone.

The give-away is the remains of the shot holes for blasting in the sides of the marina!

By comparison, sandstone is soft, and can be excavated mechanically in many cases.

 

[peteK]

Sorry to disappoint but they are not building a marina at New Brighton,but have always thought it would be a good place,with the entrance facing the Mersey for shelter
The new building is a Morrisons supermarket.
Searush, There is so many doglegs in the channel now you wouldnt believe it but I think I know where you mean,is it down stream of the sewer pipe,near where a stream runs across the beach.

 

[Searush]

See the following link: www.camserv.co.uk/neptune/nb_phase2.htm

That looks like it's the supermarket on the old Bathing Pool site. I spent much of my yoof in there, it was the biggest open air pool in Europe - and possibly the coldest!

Why do supermarkets get the best sites in town? You could command a fortune for houses on that site with the views it has. The black line in the water behind to the left will be the Training bank for the Queen's Channel.

 

[Searush]

My mooring was opposite the end of Target Road, about 1/2 mile or so from Maurice's Boatyard. AFAIK, it is still there, I simply couldn't lift it- even with 3 beer barrels at the bottom of the riser. I even added my boat & nearly pulled her under. The mud is good there!

Harrumph, the link isn't right, that's about 1.5 miles further out to sea.

 

[WindermereColvic]

The give-away is the remains of the shot holes for blasting in the sides of the marina!

Forgive the side note, But i belive Portavadie was origanly excavated by the oil industry to repair rigs ect, and later turned in to a marina. One wonders if the oil lot would have a bit more might (both financial and explosive) to dig through hard rock than the average marina co.

 

[Searush]

Reply received as follows

Full text of e-mail just received;

Steve

Thanks for your interest in the Irish Sea Conservation Zones project. You are quite correct that at the moment there is a potential Marine Conservation Zone located in an area around Hilbre Island. You can see this on the attached report, which is the most recent. It is listed as pMCZ 14 (ie. potential Marine Conservation Zone 14). Our project has to recommend some zones in the Irish Sea later this year, after which the government will consider them, run a full public consultation, and then designate the zones in 2012.

Marine Conservation Zones are one part of a new system of marine protection that will create a network of protected areas around the UK over the next few years. The zones are intended to protect certain habitats and species. These are listed in a guidance document that we’ve been given by the government’s nature conservation advisors (Natural England and the Joint Nature Conservation Committee). You can download this from the Resources page of our website. The zones won’t protect every example of these habitats and species, just some of them. So the zone around Hilbre Island is intended to protect some of these specific habitats and species.

However, the project is still in progress and none of the potential zones so far indentified are at all finalized. They may well change. Also, we’ve had a lot of feedback on the zone around Hilbre Island and we’re not sure whether or not it will end up as a recommended zone or not. We will know more following our next big workshop, which is this Thursday and Friday.

In terms of the impact on leisure boaters, it’s a bit early to say. Any regulations or restrictions would be tailored to protect the specific habitats and species that the zone covers. So different zones covering different habitats and species could have different restrictions. In general, however, leisure boating is not seen as a particularly damaging activity and so would be unlikely to be heavily restricted. The obvious exception to this would be anchoring, which might damage certain habitats or species. Again, it is too early to say but we should have more information following this week’s workshop.

For more information on the project, see our website at www.irishseaconservation.org.uk

Best regards
Matthew.

Matthew Sutcliffe
ISCZ Communications Co-ordinator
T: 01925 855 744
M: 07772 550 129
Spencer House
91 Dewhurst Road
Birchwood
Warrington
WA3 7PG
www.irishseaconservation.org.uk

Firstly, I am impressed by the speed of response & full disclosure of contact details. They get full marks for that. Secondly, it seems a very open & full reply. Anyone available to go to their meetings? I no longer cruise the area or live there.

Time for someone local to get involved? Please? Pretty, pretty please?

 

[Searush]

Having now done some reading of the web site & the second progress report, it is clear that leisure boaters are again not represented (just like at Studland). There were no representatives present from any of the dozens of Sailing clubs catering for cruising boats in the area. Sea anglers, commercial fishermen, scuba divers, even telecoms (undersea cables) but not a single MoBo or Raggie!

So get involved, offer your expertise & local knowledge. I am going to - and you wouldn't want to leave it all to a senile old leftie like me - would you?

Edit; The stakeholder representative for Leisure Boating is TBC - they haven't actually got one yet!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Forgive the side note, But i belive Portavadie was origanly excavated by the oil industry to repair rigs ect, and later turned in to a marina. One wonders if the oil lot would have a bit more might (both financial and explosive) to dig through hard rock than the average marina co.

Yes, it was, though I understand it was never used for the planned purpose.

But my point was that sandstone can be excavated using mechanical excavators, and that even very hard rock like that at Portavadie CAN be excavated at a cost that makes economic sense for some purposes.

Dynamite is not expensive; the major cost at Portavadie would be removal of the smashed up rock, exactly as at a "soft rock" site.

 

[matsutcliffe]

Potential Marine Conservation Zone - Hilbre Island

I just wanted to respond to the post by Searush regarding a potential Marine Conservation Zone in the Wirral / Hilbre Island area. Really it's a quick apology - it did look from our website that there was no one on our regional stakeholder group who represented the recreational sailing / leisure craft sector. This was really due to some changes in who was on the group and because the website needed updating.

In fact, we have had someone representing the sector at every meeting. Peter Jones from Liverpool Sailing Club attended the early meetings, while Geoff Meggitt from the RYA has attended the last couple. Both have made valuable contributions to the negotiations.

I've updated our site to show Geoff on the regional stakeholder group.

Lastly, a quick update - as I hinted in my response to Steve (who I assume is Searush?) there was indeed much discussion about the potential Marine Conservation Zone around the Dee estuary / Wirral Foreshore / Hilbre Island.

This is known as pMCZ 14. I can't give too much detail before our official progress report is released over the next few weeks, but pMCZ now looks quite different and for now is much more focused around Hilbre Island itself. Keep an eye out for our progress report for more details (email me to be added to the list of people who get the report or just download it from our website once it's up there).

Sorry for the long post, Best
Matthew.

 

[oldharry]

Gosh! You acually have them posting on the Forums Searush - well done! Down our way, comments about blood and stones seem to be more the order of the day!

and ".... you wouldn't want to leave it all to a senile old leftie like me - would you?"

Why ever not - they did down here!

 

[Searush]

Mat Sutcliffe;

Yes, It is I, not Leclerc, but Steve Kean (aka Searush). Thanks for the reply.

Our key concern is the lack of information out there to reassure us. We have seen some vested interests trying to ban boating and quangos desperate to fill quotas without understanding the consequences of their actions.

We (or at least I) feel threatened. We appear to be conceived as a "threat" to the environment that we love & cherish. The lifestyle that we live for is possibly going to be severely curtailed in the very best locations. May I make a special plea for information to be disseminated clearly & widely.

The hardest thing of all is to find out who is responsible for what, which areas are affected & what we can do to help, rather than simply being banned without justifiable evidence of damage.

I am happy to have long posts from you, or your colleagues, or links to documents that show the areas under consideration, the need for conservation & what boaters can do to help. We ARE legion and we can help, but not if we are kept in the dark & treated as "the enemy" which is a little what it feels like at present.

 

[aquaplane]

Well said Mr Rush.