wiggy
Well-Known Member
Got the new addition through the post today and at last it’s in a paper wrapper instead of plastic, fantastic effort and still a great read.
Well Done PBO
- Thread starter wiggy
- Start date
pvb
Well-Known Member
Hmmm... reports suggest that it takes more than four times as much energy to manufacture a paper bag as it does to manufacture a plastic bag. Additionally, manufacturing paper also produces a higher concentration of toxic chemicals compared with making single-use plastic bags.
GHA
Well-Known Member
Old Harry
Well-Known Member
Welcome the very PC UK
skipmac
Well-Known Member
Perhaps consider this. Currently 300,000,000 MT of plastics are produced every year. Of that an estimated 8,000,000,000 kg end up in the ocean. Since commercial production of plastic started over 8,000,000,000 MT have been produced. Since most types of plastic do not biodegrade but just break down into smaller particles that means that virtually all of that plastic ever made is still lingering around on the ground, in the trash dumps, landfills, oceans and beaches.
I for one, hate watching plastic and styrofoam float by many times every single day I'm on the ocean, even hundreds of miles at sea. I hate walking on deserted beaches on uninhabited islands on the windward side of the far south Bahamas that are covered with plastic trash.
Even if one ignores the aesthetics there are the potential health problems. As plastics break down into smaller particles they enter the food chain and we ingest them. Some plastics have chemical structures that resemble and mimic human hormones. Stuff and nonsense, tempest in a teacup? Well maybe but do you want to be the test subject in a global, biochemical experiment? Maybe the health effects are minimal to nonexistent but I for one would prefer my progeny not have to find out otherwise if that is not the case.
Paper on the other hand breaks down. Manufacture of paper does generate some nasty wastes, dioxins and furans being the main ones, and foul odors from the sulfur compounds especially in soft woods. However these are all point source generated so can be more easily dealt with and indeed have already been reduced dramatically.
Bottom line modern life and billions of people will inevitably generate waste and pollution. Nothing we do will come without some environmental consequences but plastics in general have become one of the worst and anything that can be done to reduce that can't hurt. Sure one little magazine wrapper isn't much but multiply that by hundreds of thousands of magazines, millions when you look globally and it adds up.
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.
I for one, hate watching plastic and styrofoam float by many times every single day I'm on the ocean, even hundreds of miles at sea. I hate walking on deserted beaches on uninhabited islands on the windward side of the far south Bahamas that are covered with plastic trash.
Even if one ignores the aesthetics there are the potential health problems. As plastics break down into smaller particles they enter the food chain and we ingest them. Some plastics have chemical structures that resemble and mimic human hormones. Stuff and nonsense, tempest in a teacup? Well maybe but do you want to be the test subject in a global, biochemical experiment? Maybe the health effects are minimal to nonexistent but I for one would prefer my progeny not have to find out otherwise if that is not the case.
Paper on the other hand breaks down. Manufacture of paper does generate some nasty wastes, dioxins and furans being the main ones, and foul odors from the sulfur compounds especially in soft woods. However these are all point source generated so can be more easily dealt with and indeed have already been reduced dramatically.
Bottom line modern life and billions of people will inevitably generate waste and pollution. Nothing we do will come without some environmental consequences but plastics in general have become one of the worst and anything that can be done to reduce that can't hurt. Sure one little magazine wrapper isn't much but multiply that by hundreds of thousands of magazines, millions when you look globally and it adds up.
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.
pvb
Well-Known Member
But the steps need to be taken in the right places. By and large, people in developed countries are fairly responsible. We don't simply dump our trash in the river or in the street. We collect it, scrupulously separate it into different types, recycle it. So single steps in our countries will achieve very little. On the other hand, people in places like India could have a massive influence on plastics in the oceans by not chucking trash in the rivers or on the beaches.
It's the same with CO2 emissions, the worst offenders are blithely pouring it out into the atmosphere, while those of us in developed countries are taking huge steps to reduce it.
Here's an Indian beach...
Graham376
Well-Known Member
A couple of mags received recently were in biodegradable bags made IIRC from starch, which can be disposed of in food waste bin. My BSAC Scuba mag came with no bag, the address being printed on the back cover.
guardian
Well-Known Member
I don't get the Greta thing atall as all shes doing is preaching to the converted namely the West. Instead why doesn't she try her sneering / lecturing schtick with the Chinese & Indians and see how it works out given the scale of pollution from those two countries................
skipmac
Well-Known Member
Well, not all the West is converted. Assume you are not forced to listen to the tripe that spews from the mouth of the US president.
pvb
Well-Known Member
Exactly. If she seriously wanted to make a difference, as opposed to just getting publicity for herself, she wouldn't be targeting Western countries.
pvb
Well-Known Member
The vast majority of mail order catalogues which arrived through our postbox are unwrapped, simply having the address printed on them. So much better.
skipmac
Well-Known Member
Well this is largely correct but not completely so. Certainly not nearly as much as is tossed out in the third world but I have walked down country lanes in the UK and observed quite a bit of trash tossed out car windows into the ditch. Over here I regularly fill a can with plastic water bottles and fast food waste tossed in the ditch in front of my property.
However, even if it is mostly collected and taken to a land fill in western countries the plastic is still there and over time breaks down into microparticles and ends up in the soil and water.
One also should consider that the huge bulk of plastic is manufactured in the US and EU thought significant quantities are coming from China, Brazil and the middle east, mainly Saudi Arabia. Since we (meaning western countries) are producing a large percentage of the plastic does it not then make sense that we take the lead in reducing the use of plastics?
Bottom line every little bit helps and we all can contribute. I really don't see the down side to getting a magazine wrapped in paper instead of plastic.
pvb
Well-Known Member
You seem to be making things up as you go along. The majority of plastic production is in Asia. 2018 figures suggest that North America accounted for only 17.7% and Europe for only 18.5% (and European plastics production was down by 4% in 2018).
Plastic production on the rise worldwide but slowing in Europe
The downside was explained in post 2. Paper uses 4 times the energy to make, and chucks out some nasty chemicals in the process. If every little bit helps, we should be looking at the overall process, not just getting worked up about plastic.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Don't know what England do about charging for waste but Conwy County is doing its best to increase fly tipping. A small builders bag of DIY waste, rubble etc., costs £4 at the tip and we've just been advised that it will in future cost £35/year to collect garden waste.
steveeasy
Well-Known Member
Im no eco warrior, but every step in the right direction is a positive one. Perhaps we will only get somewhere be leading by example. Third world countries will hopefully improve as they develop. we have plenty to do here in the UK before we can preach to others.
Steveeasy
Steveeasy
Graham376
Well-Known Member
It has the added benefit they can't include loose flyers trying to flog pensions, insurance, funeral plans,etc. which in 99.9% of cases just go in the bin. A total waste of trees.
skipmac
Well-Known Member
If you will read carefully, I lumped the US and EU together which accounts for more than the second largest source which is China, roughly 30-35% vs 20-25%. So excuse me, I was working off old information based on my minor involvement in plastics trading some years ago.
Bottom line, the plastic bags and bottles I see on the beaches in the US and Caribbean don't come from India or Africa or Asia. The labels on the bottles are overwhelmingly in English and companies based in the US, UK and France predominate. Of course the problem of plastic waste is much, much worse in the third world but does that absolve us from trying to do what we can to minimize the problem?
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
What bugs me about today's packaging is that I go to my local DIY shop to by a twist drill and it comes whit a card backing and plastic bubble just to hang it on the POS rack.
It amazes me at the amount of formed plastic containers tools are packaged in just for the Point of sale rack
It amazes me at the amount of formed plastic containers tools are packaged in just for the Point of sale rack
pvb
Well-Known Member
I did read carefully, and I disagreed with your comment that "the huge bulk of plastic is manufactured in the US and EU". Asia accounts for the majority of global plastic production (ie more than 50%). China alone accounts for about 30%. But I accept that your knowledge may be out of date.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
I used to sell packaging to manufacturers many years ago and later on, extrusions to the building and windows trades. Unfortunately, we the consumers are responsible for the vast amounts of blister and other packaging as retail sales confirm that the prettier the packaging, the more sells. Typical case was a company manufacturing anodised aluminium trays for drinks etc. We supplied two types of packaging, one had a white cardboard base with a pretty colour-printed clear acetate lid, the other was just a plain cardboard sleeve with product name printed. Shops used to display the see through acetate version with the plain cardboard ones alongside at £2 cheaper. Acetate by far outsold plain.
From a store's perspective, blister packs have the advantage that easy for customer to see and with bar code and embedded security tab done by the manufacturer, all they have to do is hang them up. They won't go away but a biodegradable substitute for the plastic needs developing.