Webasto heater advice please

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ferroboat

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We live on our boat and for heating have a Webasto Evo 5500 system. Every two or three months the diagnostic switch flashes twice to tell us it has gone to flame out mode. The chap who sold us the system says it is dirty fuel, and the burner gets heavily clogged with carbon. Having gone through three burners we had the fuel tank professionally cleaned and the fuel polished. We have a Racor 2 micron spin on filter just for the Webasto and the diagnostics today again flashed twice, so I have had a look at the burner which we have only been using for the last two months and it was heavily cabonised with a pronounced redish tinge. My questions are:

1. Am I asking too much as we run it every day through the winter for approx 12 hrs a day on red diesel

2. The fuel supply for our main engine and the Webasto is from the same large fuel tank, but would it be possible for me to bring in to play another fuel tank which at the moment is not used but has been thoroughly cleaned and is situated 7ft above by installing a three way valve so we have the option of drawing fuel from either tank. The fuel from the secondary tank situated 7ft above would be gravity fed until it entered the filter, which is situated next to the Webasto fuel pump. We would fill this secondary tank with white diesel from a forecourt.

3. Is there any other advice that could be offered to stop the burner clogging up.

There are other boats here with air blown central heating systems of various makes who are obtaining their fuel from the same source as us and do not have these problems.

Thanks in anticipation.
 
ferroboat said:
We live on our boat and for heating have a Webasto Evo 5500 system. Every two or three months the diagnostic switch flashes twice to tell us it has gone to flame out mode. The chap who sold us the system says it is dirty fuel, and the burner gets heavily clogged with carbon. Having gone through three burners we had the fuel tank professionally cleaned and the fuel polished. We have a Racor 2 micron spin on filter just for the Webasto and the diagnostics today again flashed twice, so I have had a look at the burner which we have only been using for the last two months and it was heavily cabonised with a pronounced redish tinge. My questions are:

1. Am I asking too much as we run it every day through the winter for approx 12 hrs a day on red diesel

2. The fuel supply for our main engine and the Webasto is from the same large fuel tank, but would it be possible for me to bring in to play another fuel tank which at the moment is not used but has been thoroughly cleaned and is situated 7ft above by installing a three way valve so we have the option of drawing fuel from either tank. The fuel from the secondary tank situated 7ft above would be gravity fed until it entered the filter, which is situated next to the Webasto fuel pump. We would fill this secondary tank with white diesel from a forecourt.

3. Is there any other advice that could be offered to stop the burner clogging up.

There are other boats here with air blown central heating systems of various makes who are obtaining their fuel from the same source as us and do not have these problems.

Thanks in anticipation.
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We had to have our circuit board re-placed. Ours only flashed once and the supplier also said we had dirty fuel? The fuel is/was not dirty.
 
Hi I was having some problems with my Webasto airtop and took it to be serviced.The guy who serviced it said if possible run it on white diesel as it burns cleaner than red and also run it at full bore for at least 30-40 mins as this will clean the burner cartridge.

Hope this helps
 
There seems to be a general acceptance that road diesel is better for heaters. Having a separate tank is too complicated for us but we do run on full heat for a period every time we start it. The same heaters virtually are used in road vehicles such as ambulances and are in regular use through the winter, so your use ought to be feasible.
 
Not certain about the evo 5500 but there is an opinion that Eberspacher's benefit from running on kerosene or at least using kero from time to time. Running at low power may also have a detrimental effect. There will also be test in tour manual whereby you can measure the amount of fuel being pumped to see that excess fuel is not being pumped into the heater.
 
This came up in another thread earlier this winter. The advice was to run a gallon of parafin / kerosene through the heater. Apparently it burns hotter and de-carbonisers the combustion chamber. It was a thoughtful post with before and after pictures. Hope this helps
 
Are you having the CO2 set each time (or ever) when the burner is replaced? are you usung the Evo setting a lot? Do you have ULS red where you fill up? When you say got it from do you mean it was pro installed or DIY? if you could answer these questions it would assist me to give some more meaningful help. Meantime DO NOT run the Evo on paraffin if it kicks over to boost it will overheat. All that said, as a live aboard you were not given best advice on system choice as you would be much better off with a PJ heater. The 7 foot head from the extra tank is way over the top fr an evaporator heater so if you did use it you would need a day tank of about 10 litres filled from the extra tank daily that tank should be within the distance and no higher or lower than the specified peramiters, on that point, is the current tank within peraniters?
 
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Thank you for replying David 2452. I sent you a pm before I noticed that you had edited your post. Although we are living on our boat she is a sea going yacht and not a houseboat. Are you saying that I can install a small tank next to the Webasto pump and filter that can be gravity filled from the spare tank which is situated in the front of the centre cockpit, and thereby run on white diesel. Thank you for your warning about not running on parafin. I shall take notice.
 
Yes, thats what I'm saying, however just changing to white may be no help if your red is already Ultra Low Sulphur which is becoming more the case in coastal supplies and mandatory inland. hence my reference to the CO2 setting which goes to he richness of the fuel mixture which if too high can lead to premature coking a bit like running a petrol engine on half choke all the time.
 
ferroboat said:
Our Webasto was installed by a Webasto agent and where we are buying our red diesel whilst we are not using it for propulsion and purely for heating I would be very surprised if it was ULS.
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In that case the seperate tank is probably a good idea, doesn't have to be road diesel though, plenty of marinas will sell you ULS red with 100% allowance an 5% VAT which would work out quite a lot cheaper. Still best to have the CO2 checked as well though. Any local boiler engineer can poke his instrument up uor exhaust (ooh er matron) and thell you what it is.
 
My heater is an Ebersp[acher, but I'm sure the principles are much the same.
I was having trouble with the burning tube carbonising, causing very poor starting. Once started, it ran perfectly, but starting was a nightmare. I found the following advice on the internet from Eberspacher:


Will my Eberspächer heater run on red diesel and how often will it need servicing?

"Our heater products are designed to run on fuel to specification BS EN 590 as stated in the Technical book that accompanies all heaters".

It is commonly thought that red diesel is road diesel with a red dye in it. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. There are two types of red diesel available, one is Gas Oil with red dye, and the other is Low Sulphur Gas Oil (City Gas Oil) with a red dye. The latter meets BS EN 590 and has the same specification as road diesel.

We have contacted a couple of Fuel Suppliers to ascertain "what exactly is it in the fuel that makes it different".

The main differences between "Gas Oil (non BS EN 590)" and Low Sulphur Gas Oil (to BS EN 590), is the former has a lower 'Cetane rating' 46 against 52, higher sulphur %Wt 0.2 against 0.005, higher Flash point 82 against 67 and Carbon residue, on 10% distillation residue, %Wt .12 against <0.001.

The fuel commonly found on the canal system is unfortunately "Gas Oil". The other "Red diesel" available is called "City Gas Oil" (ultra low sulphur gas oil) (Linton Fuel Oil Ltd Stock code 103). This meets BS EN 590 and apparently costs the marina only 1.5 pence more per litre. Our contact was quoted saying "why anyone chooses to buy normal gas oil, I don't know!" another supplier was challenged to why it was not always offered he said "surprisingly no one asks for it but it is readily available".

We have found boat owners using the better quality fuel to have a longer period between servicing, therefore what is needed are people like you demanding this far superior fuel. I am sure you would be happy to pay a few pence more for better fuel.


I actually bought a new burner tube, although I have since managed with some difficulty, to get all the hard carbon cleaned out of the old one, and will keep it as a spare. Previously, I was using Gas Oil, with a high sulphur content, but since getting the advice re fuel, I have used only "white" diesel. So far, after a few months of heavy use, I have had no problems at all. (Fingers crossed). Hope this is of some help to you.
 
NormanS said:
My heater is an Ebersp[acher, but I'm sure the principles are much the same.

The fuel commonly found on the canal system is unfortunately "Gas Oil". The other "Red diesel" available is called "City Gas Oil" (ultra low sulphur gas oil) (Linton Fuel Oil Ltd Stock code 103). This meets BS EN 590 and apparently costs the marina only 1.5 pence more per litre. Our contact was quoted saying "why anyone chooses to buy normal gas oil, I don't know!" another supplier was challenged to why it was not always offered he said "surprisingly no one asks for it but it is readily available".
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That information is way out of date, it has been illegal to suply anything other than ULS red to inland waterways for a couple of years.
 
At the risk of opening another can of worms we are setting off for Northern Spain early May so when we fill or tank we will need a receipt to show the 60/40 split. Can we still get ULS red? Also at the risk of going slightly off thread can you recommend a 10L diesel fuel tank that will go in our bilge next to the Webasto pump.
 
Many coastal marinas sell ULS red but check first, you can certainly specify 60/40 when you buy it. I would suggest you look on Ebay for a stainless or Ali tank there are many used ones an people who supply them for track cars and the like, I bought one for my heater test rig for about £60 and it was a first class stainless one.
 
You might be surprised at the number of coastal marinas that sell ULS red now. But the principal is correct, we have noticed a drop off in the coking issues since the introduction of easily available ULS, still early days to be certain but the signs are good. Still no need to pay road prices when the same thing with a chemical marker and dye can be bought a lot cheaper though, and it can in most areas.
 
David2452 said:
You might be surprised at the number of coastal marinas that sell ULS red now. But the principal is correct, we have noticed a drop off in the coking issues since the introduction of easily available ULS, still early days to be certain but the signs are good. Still no need to pay road prices when the same thing with a chemical marker and dye can be bought a lot cheaper though, and it can in most areas.
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Not being marina based, I buy my red diesel mainly at fishing / commercial harbours. As far as I know, I do not have ready access to ULS fuel. My post was an attempt to help others who may be in the same position, and who may be experiencing problems with their heaters.
 
We too are liveaboards with a Webasto 3500 used in much the same fashion as you.
Red diesel is the fuel used and in 9 years we have had it serviced once where it only needed new seals, and a glowplug failure this year after 9yrs of use.

One thing we do religiously is before turning it off, is to turn it up so it runs at full chat for 30mins.

The service agent told us that this burns off all the crud that builds up whilst it is just ticking over. How true this is I'm not sure but when it was last opened up he commented that considering how much use it gets, it was surprisingly clean.

Trev
 
trevorr said:
One thing we do religiously is before turning it off, is to turn it up so it runs at full chat for 30mins.

The service agent told us that this burns off all the crud that builds up whilst it is just ticking over. How true this is I'm not sure but when it was last opened up he commented that considering how much use it gets, it was surprisingly clean.

Trev
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Good advice, with the EVO 5500 it's a good idea to hit the boost button for that 30 minutes too, it will never let you do a boost for more than about 50 minutes anyway as it's right on the edge then, as is the EVO3900
 
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