weather helm in a ketch

[pugwash]

Motor-sailing with genoa and mizzen while crossing the Channel the other day, I couldn't trim out the significant weather helm. Wind was slightly ahead of abeam and around F3. What's the procedure?

 

[NealB]

Hi John,

You'll have to give us more detail about how you had the sails trimmed.

Freeing the mizzen sheet should reduce weather helm considerably.

 

[Bilgediver]

Hi John,

You'll have to give us more detail about how you had the sails trimmed.

Freeing the mizzen sheet should reduce weather helm considerably.

At that point of sail maybe free the main and mizzen to reduce!

 

[NealB]

At that point of sail maybe free the main and mizzen to reduce!

Not if, as suggested in the OP, the main wasn't set!

 

[pugwash]

We were trying all sorts of small adjustments. It did help to free the main and mizzen, and this is how we left it ultimately, but the weather helm was still considerable. When we freed only the mizzen it helped more but the sail then lost all drive and we may as well have stowed it. During the night the wind freed up a lot and came aft of the beam but the problem persisted.

 

[NealB]

We were trying all sorts of small adjustments. It did help to free the main and mizzen, and this is how we left it ultimately, but the weather helm was still considerable. When we freed only the mizzen it helped more but the sail then lost all drive and we may as well have stowed it. During the night the wind freed up a lot and came aft of the beam but the problem persisted.

Stow the mizzen, then?

 

[pugwash]

Slip of the finger. Meant to say genoa and mizzen.
Ketch owners often tell me the whole advantage of the rig is the ability to sail in low gear under genoa and mizzen only. But I couldn't do it without weather helm problems so what's the secret?

 

[sarabande]

depends on the size and overlap of the genoa. With the mizzen being well aft of the CLR (Centre of Lateral Resisistance - the pivot point of the underwater hull) it has a very strong effect in producing weather helm when there is no main.

I've found - in very general terms - that ketches are not really productive until the wind is abeam or aft of the beam, so really anything with the wind for'd of the beam is a loser as far as the mizzen is concerned.

So if you don't want to use the main, you need a biggish genny to balance the mizzen. If the wind is too much for a big genny, then maybe a small chunk of main a) to provide a decent slot for a small genoa to work with b) to provide a bit of leverage for'd of the CLR.

 

[LadyInBed]

sail in low gear under genoa and mizzen only.

Also known as Jib and Jigger.
Did you have full genoa deployed? If so, did you try reducing Genoa?

 

[jamesjermain]

Force 3 just forward of the beam - perfect sailing conditions. Set the main and if you have too much canvas for comfort, drop the mizzen or put a roll or two in the genoa. If you still have loads of weather helm, there is something wrong with the trim of the boat or the mast needs to be re-tuned.

 

[lw395]

Add a bowsprit and yankee?

 

[dunedin]

F3 and close reach ? Hoist main and switch off engine would probably sort things ;-)

 

[ash12]

what are these things called sheets? they scare me. f3 pah