We caused damage, Croatia. Should we involve harbour master?

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brownsox

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Violent storm on Saturday, anchored in shallow water in small island harbour and anchor dragged, catapulting our boat to edge of harbour where it bashed a small fishing boat's outboard. Apparently shaft is bent.

Does anyone have experience of reporting something to a harbour master in Croatia (Trogir)
We were advised by a passer by to do so, fisherman is willing but not keen. We are meeting him outside HM office tomorrow very early. We will be claiming on insurance but can't ask them for advice as it's bank holiday.
We want to play fair by the fisherman, be careful to get the insurance stuff correct, and not spend any extra time here in an expensive marina.
 
If possible I'd try and sort something out with the fisherman and unless he's asking for silly money don't involve your insurers. Have the fisherman show you the bent shaft and come to an agreement perhaps. You can only put it down to "one of those things". Accidents happen.
 
Caladh said:
If possible I'd try and sort something out with the fisherman and unless he's asking for silly money don't involve your insurers. Have the fisherman show you the bent shaft and come to an agreement perhaps. You can only put it down to "one of those things". Accidents happen.
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+ a lot. Much as I like Croatia, and generally its officials too (apart from Cavtat which we don't use anymore), I would simply look for an agreement that won't put up your premiums and give you months of hassle. The fisherman will have mates who will fit a spare secondhand part for the price of a drink, so just make sure you give him enough for the spare part. He will probably be very grateful to have no paperwork and some cash.
 
Caladh said:
If possible I'd try and sort something out with the fisherman and unless he's asking for silly money don't involve your insurers. Have the fisherman show you the bent shaft and come to an agreement perhaps. You can only put it down to "one of those things". Accidents happen.
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I beg to disagree.

AFAIK, in Croatian waters if you wish to recover from your insurance the money you will pay to a third party (the fisherman for instance) your insurer will ask for the official report of the accident. (I think it's a police matter, though, not harbourmaster's). I use Pantaenius and in a similar accident (dragging anchor) that's what they wanted. No report (as per Croatian law), no money.
At the end, the damage was so light (or rather non existent) that the other boat waived the request.

If you wish to claim own damage insurance, on the other hand, for Pantaenius your word is sufficient.
best
j
 
Thanks to all who replied.
We called in at the harbourmasters office and they seem to confirm what jaba says, there's a process and insurance companies may well expect you to have followed it. So tomorrow with the fisherman we will report the accident officially. We are insured with GJW. A previous dissimilar claim was settled with no hassle and quickly. I suspect the official docs will help. I will report back, in case ores may be interested.
 
Interesting that so many people talk about trying not to involve insurers. Surely we pay for insurance for just such events as this. GJW were great when we had to claim before. Hassle? Not at all.
 
brownsox said:
Interesting that so many people talk about trying not to involve insurers. Surely we pay for insurance for just such events as this. GJW were great when we had to claim before. Hassle? Not at all.
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Yes, agree for a largish claim but this would from what has been described be a small claim surely best sorted with cash and a drink ?
 
Hi Brownsox

Out of interest, what multiple of scope did you put out?

Just asking because we always put out 5x depth. We were anchored in 10m a few weeks ago and a boat came in past us and asked what we had out so I replied 50m. The lady said something like "That's a lot" whereas I thought that with all the thunderstorms in the Adriatic this summer I wouldn't want less.

Another big thunderstorm hit in the night but I was happy and the anchor watch program on my tablet did not go off.

When I went up on deck next morning the same boat was busy re-anchoring some distance further from the shore so I guess that perhaps they dragged during the storm. They had a "hoop anchor" the same as us but I couldn't tell if it was a Rocna like ours but it suggests that scope rather than anchor type might have been the problem.

Maybe 50m wasn't such a lot after all?

Richard
 
RichardS said:
Hi Brownsox

Out of interest, what multiple of scope did you put out?

Just asking because we always put out 5x depth. We were anchored in 10m a few weeks ago and a boat came in past us and asked what we had out so I replied 50m. The lady said something like "That's a lot" whereas I thought that with all the thunderstorms in the Adriatic this summer I wouldn't want less.

Another big thunderstorm hit in the night but I was happy and the anchor watch program on my tablet did not go off.

When I went up on deck next morning the same boat was busy re-anchoring some distance further from the shore so I guess that perhaps they dragged during the storm. They had a "hoop anchor" the same as us but I couldn't tell if it was a Rocna like ours but it suggests that scope rather than anchor type might have been the problem.

Maybe 50m wasn't such a lot after all?

Richard
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Richard we had some BIG storm this year and now if there any chance of one come we too lay 5time the depth if on our own we lay more , it not funny when the wind hit 45 50 kts .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
 
ripvan1 said:
Yes, agree for a largish claim but this would from what has been described be a small claim surely best sorted with cash and a drink ?
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+1. My take exactly.

Re anchoring we (nearly) always put out 5 x depth although there is some discussion about needing somewhat less scope when anchoring in deeper water
e.g 10+m. As "they" say, chain is not doing anything if it's stuck in a locker, or for that matter the anchor not being dug in.
 
>Interesting that so many people talk about trying not to involve insurers.

If the damage caused involves a fairly small pay out (our limit up to 1,000 pounds) then we pay it ourselves otherwise you losing your no claims bonus.
 
We recently had someone in a high speed craft run into us at about 0200, bending the pushpit and kedge anchor and bashing a hole in the outboard casing. Initially, we thought it might be costly to repair so contacted our insurers, who told us to get a report from the PP (Greek waters) along with estimates for repairs and the send it to them with a completed claim form. Once we started doing the rounds, it became clear that repairs would not be expensive, so decided not to claim. Our insurers told us that if we had claimed, we would have lost our no claims discount, which along with the excess would have made no sense at all. This tends to suggest that the best way to proceed is to deal with small claims of not much more than the policy excess yourself, rather than involving the insurers.
No idea what the legal position is anywhere (ie is there a legal requirement to report incidents) but the Greek PP clearly knew what to expect in terms of incident reporting: that is, note in their official log, give us a certified copy of the log, end of.
Anchor scope: shallow (less than 10 metres) five to seven times depth, deeper three to five times depth. Always assuming that there is room to swing to the anchor with that much scope out. The aim is to have a few metres lying on the bottom to produce a horizontal pull on the anchor so that it will dig in properly. When anchoring with a line ashore or to a quay, then generally two boat lengths.
 
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The outcome was ... Cash, no insurance.
We met the guy and two English speaking friends in Trogir by the HM office, went for a coffee (it was 8am!) and settled it. The fisherman was very form averse, and was happy with a lot less cash than he'd originally mentioned so we were fine with that. All very amicable. I think they were quite surprised that we hadn't just done a runner.
As for scope, there wasn't a lot of room, so not enough, clearly. Not sure how much. Maybe 20 metres in 6m.
 
Don't know. We left Trogir, the new marina, at 1pm, heading west. There was a yacht coming in but not a Brit flag, I'm pretty sure. We'd have noticed, not many about!
New marina, opened one month ago ... We went in not realising that, having expected the ACI one. It's smart, good service ... Expensive. Currently 10% discount as new marina promotion but it was 957 kuna for 2 nights, 10m yacht, even with the discount. Don't know how much the aci one is. Anchored again now, thank heavens.
 
Our excess id €500, I reckon its got to be more than a €1000 before you even consider claiming. Pantaenius are pretty good as I report it to them and say I am going to fix it but will notify them if it becomes more serious and I need to claim. They have always said sort it out if you can and if not we will process it. Never been asked by them for any sort of report, but they sometimes ask for some photographs. A good example is that I reversed into a rock a couple of years ago (clever). I spoke to them on the phone and sent them some photos of the damage. We agreed that it was foolish to incur thousands of pounds of cost in hauling out in summer in Sardinia so we would wait until our normal haul in the spring. In fact it cost me €300 in the yard to fix. If I had dealt with it at the time it would have been ten times that, with me losing my NCB and excess.
 
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