Watertight hatchway anyone?

[jollysailor17]

I have been pondering how to make my companionway watertight if in the event of a roll over. I watched the yachting monthly video of their demo boat being rolled over and water pouring in through the closed sliding hatch and washboards. Roger Taylor got rid of his sliding hatch and washboards altogether and fitted a houdini hatch. I am probably too arthritic to enter and exit the cabin via one of those, but wonder if there is a way of making the sliding hatch watertight? Has anyone done it and if so how?
Thanks

 

[Jabs]

Try and find the pictures of Red Admiral and it's refurbishment.

It has a fantastic carbon composite plug!

I am making a Honeycomb laminate plug for my Contessa 26. It is hinged at the base of the curved section and will have closed cell neoprene foam sealing around the perimeter.

Tony.

 

[Poignard]

I have been pondering how to make my companionway watertight if in the event of a roll over. I watched the yachting monthly video of their demo boat being rolled over and water pouring in through the closed sliding hatch and washboards. Roger Taylor got rid of his sliding hatch and washboards altogether and fitted a houdini hatch. I am probably too arthritic to enter and exit the cabin via one of those, but wonder if there is a way of making the sliding hatch watertight? Has anyone done it and if so how?
Thanks

Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of small cruising yachts with traditional companionways have crossed the Atlantic, and other oceans, without their owners fearing being 'rolled over'. What makes you think it might happen to you?

 

[Jabs]

There are hundreds or maybe even thousands of us who drive our cars every day and don't have accidents.

So why do we wear seat belts??

Better to be prepared in my opinion.

Tony.

 

[Gargleblaster]

I was rolled below the horizontal a few years ago. Unfortunately I had just taken out my top washboard at the time to have a look around. I got a lot of water in the cabin, about 2 feet over the sole. About three hours later I went over again with the washboards in and got a few spurts into the cabin about three gallons but nothing unmanageable.

I think if you have your boat closed up completely and you are rolled while some water comes in, you can get rid of it again. Is it really worth the effort to try and keep all the water out? I can't anyway, I have a persistent leak in a hatch above my cooker that drips every time a wave comes over the top or even in a good rain shower. I spend most of my winter maintenance sealing up that leak. Only to find it opens up again as soon as the boat starts to move in ocean conditions.

 

[jollysailor17]

Hi Parsifal
For the most part you are undoubtedly correct and I have sailed for 40 years with sliding hatch and washboards. However, there will come a time, mid ocean, for whatever reason, carrying too much sail, hit by a squall, lying a hull and toppled by a cross sea etc, when a knockdown or rollover is not only possible, but inevitable. So it is not a case of if, but when. So if I cannot outrun a weather system, I can close up and know that my little boat can survive being rolled and will not fill with water in the process.

 

[jollysailor17]

A little water goes a long way as I recall! I was the navigator on a Swan 44 racing in an RORC race to N Spain. We were cross Biscay flying our big kite and all was well. I was below working up my sights when all of a sudden the boat broached heavily to starboard. The hatch was closed and the boards were in as a precaution. First thing I knew about it was when I was pitched into the side of the boat and a big bucket of cold Atlantic poured all over me and swamped my chart table! Then with a shrapnel storm from the galley opposite mingling with the water that cascaded along the cabin sole, our previously dry comfortable cabin was turned into a disaster area in seconds. The thing I remember most was not my sodden charts, or my ruined sights, but the cold and wet sleeping bag that I had to crawl into when I came off watch in the early hours and yes it took days to dry out. So with this little memory tucked away in the dark and dusty depths of my consciousness, I think it is better to be prepared as Tony said, than to hope it won't happen to me, because it will, sometime.

 

[evantica]

Any pic's of ming mingswater proof houdini hatch? About the video-jollysailor17- mentioned, where can I see/watch it?
I would like to make mine as safe as poosible to.
Marieholm IF sailor. similar to the contessa!

 

[jesterchallenger]

Watertight hatch

Watching the YM video of the rollover, it looks like a lot of water pouring through the hatch, but when the boat rights you can see that it's not really; there will be more pressing things to worry about (is the rig still there? Are the hatches all secure? Are the cockpit locker lids still in place? Is your self steering gear still attached? etc etc) than a wheelbarrow load of cold water down your neck. Psychologically, a cold shower at moments of high stress is most unsettling, but at least it wakes you up and gets you thinking fast about what to do next! I was knocked down to the horizontal in the JC10 and several wheelbarrowfuls of water went down the hatch and drowned my laptop ( I was in the cockpit at the time and it looked like a torrent pouring down, the washboards were in but I'd left the sliding hatch open), but in reality it only took a few seconds for the bilge pump to clear it. And lying to a drogue in a gale on the way back, water squirts through the very small gaps in the washboards with some force - this is off-pi**ing to say the least, but as the boat is fairly wet inside anyway in heavy weather, it really doesn't matter too much. I have a waterproof seat at the chart table and a waterproof (and very warm) sort of duvet thing, so I just keep my boots and oilies on all the time, awake or asleep. I have thought about a system of rubber gaskets on the sliding hatch and washboards, but I'm not sure it's really worth the effort. Most water comes into the boat attached to your clothing or when, like I did, you forget to shut the door behind you - thankfully knockdowns are fairly rare.

 

[Signed Out]

Any pic's of ming mingswater proof houdini hatch? About the video-jollysailor17- mentioned, where can I see/watch it?
I would like to make mine as safe as poosible to.
Marieholm IF sailor. similar to the contessa!

His website has some pics-

http://thesimplesailor.com/Mingming.html

Be aware that the Contessa has a very different hatchway to your IF- there is no sliding hatch, just a raised "bubble" and open to rear.

I seem to recall that the plug Jabs mentions on Red Admiral is one-piece, which surprised me.

Not expecting to be involved in Jester (as yet, perhaps in a few years), but companionway on mine needs much work, i.e. rebuilding, so very interested in this topic, thank you.

(Just looking at Roger's pics, it appears he found her in Andy Seedhouse's sales yard. Usually seems a bit of a graveyard of dreams in there).

 

[G12]

There are hundreds or maybe even thousands of us who drive our cars every day and don't have accidents.

So why do we wear seat belts??

Better to be prepared in my opinion.

Tony.

Here Here!

 

[jollysailor17]

Thanks Richard for your helpful replies which are still on topic of how to make the hatch watertight. If I went for that system, I might be able to incorporate a round Hasler hatch with rotating spray hood into the sliding hatch as well. My present sliding hatch and garage, does not allow for that, but your idea with rollers would mean I could remove the garage and the hatch when closed would still be watertight. Good one I like it. Whilst Jesterchallenger might feel this all too much bother and is entitled to his opinions, clearly Guy Waites with Red Admiral, Roger Taylor with MingMing and Pete and Annie Hill with Badger thought otherwise.
After I read Roger's books and saw how he had modified MingMing, I built a plywood mock up in the shed to suit my Hurley, but whilst I could easily get below decks via the houdini hatch, I could not for the life of me get out again. I can only surmise that Roger's dimensions and my own are somewhat different.

 

[jollysailor17]

Hi
I just found this link which though I have not read the articles yet, seems worth visiting http://cruisingresources.com/Companionways

 

[jollysailor17]

Sorry guys. Links are bad and just go to closed sites. So just bin that one!

 

[jesterchallenger]

Watertight hatches

'Whilst Jesterchallenger might feel this all too much bother...'

You misunderstand me - my hatch is secure and reasonably watertight in all normal conditions. The washboards are secured with bolts AND lanyards so they cannot be lost in the event of a knockdown or full 360. The sliding hatch can be secured from inside or outside as well to prevent this sliding back in extremis. However....unless the washboards and sliding hatch have secure neoprene seals it is very difficult to prevent the ingress of small volumes of water in bad weather - bearing in mind that when a wave strikes, the hydraulic pressure is similar to a high pressure fire hose - and I don't know of any boat I've been on that will withstand this without some sort of leak through the boards/hatch. And if you need constant access through this hatch, the seals make the sliding mechanism much more awkward.
I have no headsail furler and therefore continually need access through the companionway carrying a bagged headsail, quite often in the worst weather, both upwind and downwind. My sail store is the forecabin and whilst I can drop a bagged sail quickly through the forehatch (you do have to be quick!), dragging the next sail back up through this hatch is next to impossible. My point was that to make the companionway 100% watertight is only realistic when you don't need continual access to the deck to sail the boat (like Ming Ming, Jester etc). And in reality, the amount that gets in through the boards in bad weather is quite small (but none the less annoying for that!) unless you mistakenly leave the hatch open as I did whilst being knocked down. In the YM crashboat rollover sequence, it looks like a lot of water pouring in, but I would suggest it's an irritating but not life threatening amount. It's a good idea to think about protecting the chart table and electronics from such a downpour - I have now fitted a perspex screen to my chart table specifically to address this.

A watertight companionway is an ideal that's quite difficult to achieve if you need constant access through it. And if you do, the small amount of water that gets through is no more than an annoyance - much the same as walking through the cabin with wet oilies and a wet sailbag dripping water everywhere. Unless you can seal the cabin up completely, any small boat is going to get wet below in bad weather I'm afraid.

I would add that whilst rare, a knockdown is not unheard of, but shouldn't be too serious a happening although alarming, and certainly a wake-up call to your boat management. A 360 roll on the other hand is extremely serious in even the most well found boats, but thankfully most unlikely if the vessel is well managed. However there are issues of preparation for the latter that should be undertaken to prevent serious personal injury to the crew, but perhaps that is a topic for another thread.

 

[jesterchallenger]

Leaving the YBW forums after continuous accusation of misleading and being utterly wrong on everything.


Oops, is that me? I thought I had expressed an opinion and not made any accusation of anything, but if you took it as such, my humble apologies, it was sincerely not meant that way.

 

[Gargleblaster]

Leaving the YBW forums after continuous accusation of misleading and being utterly wrong on everything.


Oops, is that me? I thought I had expressed an opinion and not made any accusation of anything, but if you took it as such, my humble apologies, it was sincerely not meant that way.

No, I think he was fighting with someone else on another forum about a Bukh engine and just got annoyed with the amount of criticism he drew and decided to leave all the forums.

IMHO, Duncan you were neither contentious or wrong.

 

[jollysailor17]

Dear Jesterchallenger. Please do not leave the forum. You made some very valid points about the hatch and the limitations on waterproofing, given the need for constant access when sailing a bermudan rigged boat. I accept this and having sailed bermudan rigs up until lately when I bought my junk rig, I agree with you whole heartedly. I suppose the comment about water down your neck giving you a wake up call was I felt rather unnecessary, but that is just my opinion. Thank you for your comments, all of which were taken in good faith as I am sure that is the way they were intended.

 

[john williams]

very interested in reading the hatch stuff. I'm about to rebuild a companionway hatch on a gaffer. As the height of the wooden coach roof is only about 16 inches I was considering doing away with washboards and using a Maurice Griffith style double combed hatch, but somehow making it lift and then slide forward. I can think of a number of ways to do this but have yet to stumble on the easy, practical -and probably obvious- way to do it!
Id be grateful for any thoughts.
John

 

[Independence]

No, I think he was fighting with someone else on another forum about a Bukh engine and just got annoyed with the amount of criticism he drew and decided to leave all the forums.

IMHO, Duncan you were neither contentious or wrong.

+1