Waterproof waterproofs recommendation required

[Praxinoscope]

I think ‘breathable’ waterproofs are the biggest ‘con’ ever perpetrated on the sailing community. They are an expensive set of ‘emperors new cloathes’, even when new my breathable wetties never really felt that they were as dry as my old style ones and as for stopping the wind they are a joke, as you are expected to buy even more expensive intermediiate garments to keep you warm. Well my 20 year old Gill wetties only needed a shirt and maybe a jumper underneath to keep me warm and dry before they got used to stuff up a hole in the bottom of my boat and got damaged beyond repair.
Bought a set of Guy Cotten, last year, not flash or stylish, but they’re dry and keep out the wind.

 

[[70521]]

I think ‘breathable’ waterproofs are the biggest ‘con’ ever perpetrated on the sailing community. They are an expensive set of ‘emperors new cloathes’, even when new my breathable wetties never really felt that they were as dry as my old style ones and as for stopping the wind they are a joke, as you are expected to buy even more expensive intermediiate garments to keep you warm. Well my 20 year old Gill wetties only needed a shirt and maybe a jumper underneath to keep me warm and dry before they got used to stuff up a hole in the bottom of my boat and got damaged beyond repair.
Bought a set of Guy Cotten, last year, not flash or stylish, but they’re dry and keep out the wind.

They seem to work for some not for others.

See my post above.

During the summer I often sail with waterproofs and a tee-shirt and shorts in winter I add layers; I have no desire to go back to standing in my own freezing sweat that the old waterproofs allowed me to experience.

 

[Praxinoscope]

They seem to work for some not for others.

See my post above.

During the summer I often sail with waterproofs and a tee-shirt and shorts in winter I add layers; I have no desire to go back to standing in my own freezing sweat that the old waterproofs allowed me to experience.

I do tend to agree they are a bit like Marmite, but I never found my old waterproofs ‘sweaty’ maybe I’m just a lazy sailor and don’t work hard enough to work up a sweat, even when I have been racing.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Yes just a mention for those whom are not aware of this fact.

The Manufacturers and Companies selling Yachty Clothing have set up a way of detecting wether any clothing returned to them as Not fit for purpose or indeed faulty has indeed been treated or washed or dry cleaned in a prohibited way by either the customer or anyone else.

So be warned, its a folly to mistreat the Clothing and then send it back as Faulty, ie, not waterproof or the Seams are not holding well.

 

[KAM]

I think ‘breathable’ waterproofs are the biggest ‘con’ ever perpetrated on the sailing community. They are an expensive set of ‘emperors new cloathes’, even when new my breathable wetties never really felt that they were as dry as my old style ones and as for stopping the wind they are a joke, as you are expected to buy even more expensive intermediiate garments to keep you warm. Well my 20 year old Gill wetties only needed a shirt and maybe a jumper underneath to keep me warm and dry before they got used to stuff up a hole in the bottom of my boat and got damaged beyond repair.
Bought a set of Guy Cotten, last year, not flash or stylish, but they’re dry and keep out the wind.

Totally agree. I bought some simple Guy Cotten pull on trousers last season. Much better than goretex salopettes. Just pull them on when you need them no having to remove jackets and life jackets. Great for a trip ashore in the dinghy too.

 

[Kukri]

Yes just a mention for those whom are not aware of this fact.

The Manufacturers and Companies selling Yachty Clothing have set up a way of detecting wether any clothing returned to them as Not fit for purpose or indeed faulty has indeed been treated or washed or dry cleaned in a prohibited way by either the customer or anyone else.

So be warned, its a folly to mistreat the Clothing and then send it back as Faulty, ie, not waterproof or the Seams are not holding well.

Thanks. Good point.

 

[Kukri]

Like many people I once laughed at the idea of breathable oilskins and having to wash them to stop the pores clogging with salt.

Time has moved on and the designs seem much better now.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I have a set of Guy Cotten which are good but I don't wear them very often, only when I expect a cataclysm. I normally wear my old Splashdown which is just ok. However, last season I wore a ski-jacket; to my surprise it was really good, warm, dry, did not get sweaty and much cheaper than the yachting jackets; anyone else tried Ski jackets for sailing?

 

[[70521]]

Yes just a mention for those whom are not aware of this fact.

The Manufacturers and Companies selling Yachty Clothing have set up a way of detecting wether any clothing returned to them as Not fit for purpose or indeed faulty has indeed been treated or washed or dry cleaned in a prohibited way by either the customer or anyone else.

So be warned, its a folly to mistreat the Clothing and then send it back as Faulty, ie, not waterproof or the Seams are not holding well.

I'd be interested to hear how they do that?

 

[moomba]

I find it hit and miss on waterproofs , I mainly wear my Mountain Gear on my boat , Northface and Mountain Equipment,
Goretex and Hyvent , I find no difference between products and my NF salopettes are bomb proof.
There is a wetting process were a jacket can only get saturated to a cetain point and then water may penetrate you can see this on the fabric , it is aslo on a tent
Hydrostatic head

- The image with rain clouds indicates the Hydrostatic Head rating of a tent's waterproof coating (known as PU). As an example, a Hydrostatic Head of 1000 is the legal requirement to call a tent 'waterproof' so most start at 2000. 2000-3000 should cope with your standard British rainfall well enough; the higher the hydrostatic head, the better the water protection you have from your tent.
This also applies to your Garments as the pressure will finally force the water through , this is why there is A DWR treatment that will spill the water of the Jacket and it is essential that this is working well or your Jacket will get Saturated and you will get leakage
The only truly waterproof Garment is the Old style Fisherman oilskin or now plastic types

 

[Kukri]

I find it hit and miss on waterproofs , I mainly wear my Mountain Gear on my boat , Northface and Mountain Equipment,
Goretex and Hyvent , I find no difference between products and my NF salopettes are bomb proof.
There is a wetting process were a jacket can only get saturated to a cetain point and then water may penetrate you can see this on the fabric , it is aslo on a tent
Hydrostatic head

- The image with rain clouds indicates the Hydrostatic Head rating of a tent's waterproof coating (known as PU). As an example, a Hydrostatic Head of 1000 is the legal requirement to call a tent 'waterproof' so most start at 2000. 2000-3000 should cope with your standard British rainfall well enough; the higher the hydrostatic head, the better the water protection you have from your tent.
This also applies to your Garments as the pressure will finally force the water through , this is why there is A DWR treatment that will spill the water of the Jacket and it is essential that this is working well or your Jacket will get Saturated and you will get leakage
The only truly waterproof Garment is the Old style Fisherman oilskin or now plastic types

That's interesting. I have never worn my NF climbing clothes on the boat, because I thought that the type of Gore-Tex is different. I must have been told that when I bought the stuff, or maybe when I bought sailing clothes. I seem to remember being told that it would be damaged by salt.

I've worn my Henri Lloyd goretex drysuit wading up to my chest to launch and recover keelboats and it doesn't seem to get saturated, but the DWR coating is still intact.

 

[moomba]

That's interesting. I have never worn my NF climbing clothes on the boat, because I thought that the type of Gore-Tex is different. I must have been told that when I bought the stuff, or maybe when I bought sailing clothes. I seem to remember being told that it would be damaged by salt.

I've worn my Henri Lloyd goretex drysuit wading up to my chest to launch and recover keelboats and it doesn't seem to get saturated, but the DWR coating is still intact.

You may find that he salt attacks the DWR and that is potentially why people get leaky jackets , a mountain Jacket will require less maintenance as the environment does not have the corrosive salt
This is speculation on my part but would make sense as the DWR will fade much quicker in a salty environment, so wash them properly and DWR protect them regularly
Just been on the Gore Tex website and can't find anything to do with Marine cloth , the Cloth is trademarked and sold to manufacturing outlets such as Musto who then make the items with Goretex lining so it may also be down to poor manufacturing

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The argument about Breathable vs conventional non permeable waterproofs I think depends on the person.

Unfortunately I am one of those who sweat, even the thought of work can bring me out in a cold sweat. For years I wore the new nylon cagoules and over trousers when out on the hill and would end up wet and often cold as the sweat generated by my body could not escape, my first sailing waterproofs were no different, then I invested in breathable ones. They were an improvement but still I had something of a problem and was often damp inside, then I listened to the advice and bought the correct wicking underwear and intermediate layers. Result, dry as a bone and warm as toast when it was cold. Yes I spent a lot of beer tokens on it but it was worth it.

 

[Kukri]

You may find that he salt attacks the DWR and that is potentially why people get leaky jackets , a mountain Jacket will require less maintenance as the environment does not have the corrosive salt
This is speculation on my part but would make sense as the DWR will fade much quicker in a salty environment, so wash them properly and DWR protect them regularly
Just been on the Gore Tex website and can't find anything to do with Marine cloth , the Cloth is trademarked and sold to manufacturing outlets such as Musto who then make the items with Goretex lining so it may also be down to poor manufacturing

Thanks; that all makes sense.

 

[Kukri]

The argument about Breathable vs conventional non permeable waterproofs I think depends on the person.

Unfortunately I am one of those who sweat, even the thought of work can bring me out in a cold sweat. For years I wore the new nylon cagoules and over trousers when out on the hill and would end up wet and often cold as the sweat generated by my body could not escape, my first sailing waterproofs were no different, then I invested in breathable ones. They were an improvement but still I had something of a problem and was often damp inside, then I listened to the advice and bought the correct wicking underwear and intermediate layers. Result, dry as a bone and warm as toast when it was cold. Yes I spent a lot of beer tokens on it but it was worth it.

Very good point. Same goes for me, so decision made.

 

[Humblebee]

I can understand the theory as to how breathable garments, but will breathable garments still breathe when wet on the outside? I would have thought a layer of rainwater prevented them from working.

 

[moomba]

I can understand the theory as to how breathable garments, but will breathable garments still breathe when wet on the outside? I would have thought a layer of rainwater prevented them from working.

I think your right hence the saturation point and the hydro-static head , the hot air of the Body needs to go somewhere and no matter how good your wicking layers are if it cant get past the Jacket fabric , you will get wet inside out
That is why it is essential to look after these Jackets , as when they come of the shelf and are working great no problems, but how many of us rinse our Jacket in fresh water after a good splashing of Salt , yet when I go diving I rinse all my gear in fresh water as the salt water is corrosive to my gear, why not my sailing gear
Just taught myself a lesson

 

[KellysEye]

When our Musto Goretex waterproofs failed they sent us new one but check they still do.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I think your right hence the saturation point and the hydro-static head , the hot air of the Body needs to go somewhere and no matter how good your wicking layers are if it cant get past the Jacket fabric , you will get wet inside out
That is why it is essential to look after these Jackets , as when they come of the shelf and are working great no problems, but how many of us rinse our Jacket in fresh water after a good splashing of Salt , yet when I go diving I rinse all my gear in fresh water as the salt water is corrosive to my gear, why not my sailing gear
Just taught myself a lesson

On the occasions that I had to wear full "oilskins" (showing my age) and they got doused in salt water usually from venturing onto the foredeck or the occasional green one into the cockpit when I arrived in my home port or even a visiting one if away for any time I would always wash of the decks, spray hood etc with fresh water from a dockside hose whilst wearing my waterproofs, afterwards I would wash of the waterproofs whilst wearing them not giving them a chance to dry out and salt to crystallise in the fabric. A simple answer to the problem. At the end of a seasons sailing a dousing in the bath with proprietary cleaner was the final treatment. I think I had my Musto Ocean Gortex salopette and jacket for about 10 years without problem.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Well I mentioned early in this thread that the manufacturers have ways of testing garments returned as faulty etc especially if there is a claim of not waterproof etc. Was on a course by a leading manufacturers a few years ago and they stated that they run chemical tests on returned garments that show wrongfully washing and cleaning processes so can with certainty reject a false claim by a buyer so beware of returning if wrongfully treated