Watermaker.....gutted!

[Sy-Revolution]

I have a Village Marine Tec watermaker. Got it S/H on ebay.
This year we need a new mebrane for it. So this is where I find
out that the pressure vessel isn't a standard size.

I've been quoted nearly £450 for a new one.

However from a company called Desal in the UK a new (Dow) seawater RO membrane of similar (50mm larger in length) size is only £141 !

So I start to think maybe I could go for a new pressure vessel because they're only £200. Then I read that my pump needs a low-flow membrane for some reason. These aren't standard.

Going any further would not be economical. However If I'd known better at the time I'd have built my own. The membrane, pressure vessel and pump listed below in option 3 (similar size to mine) would produce nearly three times P/H what mine does. So if anyone is thinking about buying a watermaker it might well be worth going DIY esspecially when the replacement membranes are SO much cheaper.

If you were thinking of going DIY the following might be of interest.

Prices just quoted to me:

Option 1

1 off SW30-2514 FilmTec RO Membrane Element £120.84 each

1 off 2½” x 1 element (14”) x 1000psi Pressure Vessel £171.88 each

1 off Danfoss APP0.6 with a 1.1kW, 50Hz, 1500 rpm, £1620.62 each

4 pole motor assembly giving a Permeate flow of 250L/Hr



Option 2

1 off SW30-2521 FilmTec RO Membrane Element £131.34 each

1 off 2½” x 1 element (21”) x 1000psi Pressure Vessel £187.50 each

1 off Danfoss APP0.6 with a 2.2kW, 50Hz, 3000 rpm, £1620.85 each

2 pole motor assembly giving a Permeate flow of 460L/Hr



Option 3

1 off SW30-2540 FilmTec RO Membrane Element £141.85 each

1 off 2½” x 1 element (40”) x 1000psi Pressure Vessel £201.56 each

1 off Danfoss APP1.0 with a 3.0kW, 50Hz, 3000 rpm, £1708.77 each

2 pole motor assembly giving a Permeate flow of 1m³/Hr


Not sure of the power requirements for the Danfoss motors as yet.

Of course you've got to factor in a preassure control valve, pipe work and filters but still...........


And to the companies charging 3 times the price for a seawater RO membrane........shame on you!

C.

 

[Tradewinds]

Hi Crispin,

If you remember we had a conversation about getting the Little Wonder when it came on the market.

I have a LW-150 which takes a standard SW30-2521 membrane - I'm surprised yours is non-standard.

The Desal people are pretty helpful & their prices seem keen. Another supplier recently quoted me 3x the price for the same membrane!

Sorry I can't help but I hope you resolve your problem soon.

BTW the membranes should last a good few years so I don't know what has happened in your case.

 

[Sy-Revolution]

My membrane happens to be 967mm long, the standard one is 1016mm. Prod No. 33-3002 http://www.villagemarine.com/images/7897AquaPro_RO_Membranes.pdf

The membrane (Second hand when bought) had never really made nice tasting water, we were surprised when tasting some water on a friends boat as to how good it should taste (we used to drink heat distilled water at home, lovely!)

Also the product water began to taste a little salty, I took it apart to find that the spigot on one end was cracked and wasn't making a good seal at the end cap.

I have toyed with the idea of going with a new pressure vessel and membrane but was concerned about the fact that Village Marine recommend on their website that a special membrane is required for a low flow pump. I guess your pump is similar to mine, but yours is ok with the standard membrane?

Perhaps it's worth changing? Or just cough up.....

C.

 

[Tradewinds]

My membrane happens to be 967mm long, the standard one is 1016mm.

The membrane (Second hand when bought) had never really made nice tasting water, we were surprised when tasting some water on a firends boat as to how good it should taste (we used to drink heat distilled water at home, lovely!)

Also the product water began to taste a little salty, I took it apart to find that the spigot on one end was cracked and wasn't making a good seal at the end cap.

I have toyed with the idea of going with a new pressure vessel and membrane but was concerned about the fact that Village Marine recommend on their website that a special membrane is required for a low flow pump. I guess your pump is similar to mine, but yours is ok with the standard membrane?

Perhaps it's worth changing?

C.

Mine's always given superb water but it's been sitting in the shed for several years so hence a new membrane as I'm going to re-install it. The Filmtec SW30-2521 was the original membrane on mine (it said so on the label!) so I don't know where the 'special membrane' guff comes from.

 

[Jeannius]

I bought a Pro Watermaker ( http://home.comcast.net/~prowatermaker/pro_series_modular.htm) about 30 months ago. They supply a package of off-the-shelf components just as you are suggesting. 20 gallons an hour is $3899 or around £2500. That includes every bit of pipe, every connector and every filter (plus some spares) Only thing you need to do for yourself is source the 2 through-hulls.

Absolutely excellent.

 

[Sy-Revolution]

Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to buy the new pressure vessel and filmtec membrane. Apart from any future membranes being cheaper it's got to make sense to have a 'standard' size. I'm quite happy with my Little Wonder, but I find it galling that a company should choose to supply a non-standard size vessel on in item that's obviously going to be used in far flung places around the world.

They even supply a 2" adaptor with their membranes so they'll fit the standard size vessel!

!!!!Cheek!!!!

 

[Sy-Revolution]

Just had this back from Village Marine:


"We have redesigned the Little Wonder membranes to work more efficiently. For a LWM 200 the proper membrane is 33-3002. You can use the 33-0238, but it will not work properly due to a lack of flow from your high pressure pump. As for your friends LW150, the pump and motor are different, and require the membrane, part # 33-3000.

Feel free to contact me with any further questions or concerns. Thank you. "

Tradewinds, what kind of pump do you have? I have the single piston, titanium head, belt driven, 12v job........

 

[Tradewinds]

Just had this back from Village Marine:


"We have redesigned the Little Wonder membranes to work more efficiently. For a LWM 200 the proper membrane is 33-3002. You can use the 33-0238, but it will not work properly due to a lack of flow from your high pressure pump. As for your friends LW150, the pump and motor are different, and require the membrane, part # 33-3000.

Feel free to contact me with any further questions or concerns. Thank you. "

Tradewinds, what kind of pump do you have? I have the single piston, titanium head, belt driven, 12v job........

Sounds a bit like marketing b***sh*t to me.

When I bought the LVM150 in the mid-90s the Little Wonder by Village Marine Tec was highly regarded by the US cruising fraternity as one of the best on the market. So that's why I bought it - the pump is belt driven 12v single piston, the membrane is SW30-2521. The head is stainless (mine could be titanium but I thought that titanium was a lightweight material - mine is S/S weight so perhaps a version before). For me, and plenty of other cruisers, it has produced excellent water day in, day out. Village Marine Tec has since been taken over by Parker/Racor - maybe they have 'upgraded' their specifications to ensure they control their spares income.

In fairness I quote from one of their publications:

Membrane Upgrade for LW and SQ
The Problem:
As the popularity of Racor VMT Little Wonder RO systems increased, the population of Little Wonder units around the world began operating in a wider and wider range of temperatures and ocean salinities. The original design was constructed around a narrow range of operating parameters. While this worked for many applications, it limited operations and customer satisfaction. The Little Wonder was a great product but needed to be enhanced to operate in the new environments where it was being used.
The Solution:
Racor VMT put together a highly talented membrane engineering and production team to solve this new challenge. We started with the basic parameters of the new system – designed a testing program and went to work. After five weeks and a thorough testing, we arrived at the solution. We engineered a newly configured membrane that could accept a wide range of temperatures and salinity conditions. A novel “Dog Bone” design was used so our legacy Little Wonder systems could benefit from the new membranes as well as being suitable for our current units. In addition we enhanced the membrane design for optimum performance. All this hard work has paid off and has been demonstrated by improved customer satisfaction globally.

Think I'll still stick with the SW30-2521 membrane as it's adequate for my needs - it worked from the Caribbean, through the Pacific & up the Red Sea (fairly saline).

 

[Sy-Revolution]

Thanks tradewinds.

I have some clarification:

"you can use the 33-0238, but it will not work properly due to a lack of flow from your high pressure pump. The 33-0238 membrane will work initially, but over time the low flow rate will decrease the life of the membrane faster then would normally be seen in a system that uses it. Because of the LWM 200 HP pump low flow rate, a new membrane was designed. This membrane, PN 33-3002, has a reduced surface area to allow for proper cross-flow cleaning. "


The cost thing apart, I'm more frustrated by the fact that having a non-standard size makes it MUCH harder to find a replacement further afield. Plus I'm told the lead time is 5-6 weeks.

 

[Tradewinds]

Thanks tradewinds.

I have some clarification:

"you can use the 33-0238, but it will not work properly due to a lack of flow from your high pressure pump. The 33-0238 membrane will work initially, but over time the low flow rate will decrease the life of the membrane faster then would normally be seen in a system that uses it. Because of the LWM 200 HP pump low flow rate, a new membrane was designed. This membrane, PN 33-3002, has a reduced surface area to allow for proper cross-flow cleaning. "


The cost thing apart, I'm more frustrated by the fact that having a non-standard size makes it MUCH harder to find a replacement further afield. Plus I'm told the lead time is 5-6 weeks.

Who are you communicating with? PM me if you prefer.