water penetration in transom hung rudder (maxi 84)

[vasant]

Hi all,
On my maxi 84 there is a transom hung rudder which IN THEORY is less affected by water penetration. Nevertheless when lifting out the boat I noticed a considerable amount of (stinking) water comming out of a little hole near the lower part of the rudder.
I understand this is not unusual nevertheless it should be fixed. As i am a recent owner I do not know the story of this issue but i saw some points at the edge where the water could easily penetrate. To cover everything up with some epoxy resin should t be rocket science but i would like to be sure that the structure inside is in good shape. Does anyone know what the inside of these maxi rudder is made of? On the higher part at least it feels very robust....

I am thinking of opening some holes to dry out, fill with polyurethane foam and then re-laminate the whole wetted area. In some other forum I have read of something like a "draining plug" on a rudder... Could it be that its on purpose to fill it up?? dont think so.....
Thanks for your ideas.....

 

[Tranona]

Almost certainly foam inside which may not be in good shape if it has been waterlogged. The only way to fix it permanently is to split it, clean out all the old foam, replace the foam and bond the two halves back together again.

Before doing that you could try drilling holes and see how far the water has got in, wait until it drains and seal the holes. You will also need to find out where it is coming in - often a split or crack in the seam where the two halves join or through fittings. Some people do accept the inevitable and put a drain plug in the bottom so that water can be drained out when the boat is laid up.

 

[Concerto]

I am almost certain that my surveyor of my Westerly Fulmar said that all Maxi's have a drain hole in the the rudder. Have a chat with a few surveyors to see this is the case, then there should be no problem as it was designed to drain the rudder when it is out of the water.

If you want to check if there is a crack in the seam of the rudder then coat in a soapy liquid and pump air through the small hole from a foot pump. If you see any bubbles, thats where the leak is.

 

[vasant]

Hi Concerto,
Taken into account the amound of water that was comming out, this sounds realistic, as it seemed that ONLY water is inside.
But still for me it sounds weird to have a rudder that should be full of water? or even air??

Any maxi owner to consult here....

 

[oldsaltoz]

I have worked on quite a few rudders that had water problems, none of them were designed to have water in them.

Most boat manufactures do not make the rudders themselves. The work is let to contract and this can result in the cheapest bid getting the work.

First thing to do is try to find out just what is inside like, tangs and how they were attached. Some just welded them to the shaft and did a poor job of pickling the welds, resulting in rusted weds that fail, other did not fit gussets when they should have, the most common failures are due to the use of standard open cell foam rather than closed cell that will absorb moisture. The also fail to provide support (other than foam) between the tangs and the outer skin. I only takes a moment to drill out a plug on the tags and fill it with a solid so the ap between the skin and the outer layer is supported rather than relying on a soft foam.

I also put 'O' rings on the rudder stock just below the top to prevent moisture ingress.

I would love to get some of the makers on a boat, in the dark, with howling wind and a huge swell.
Then drop the rudder off just so they could experience what a joy it is....

My advice would be to split your rudder or at least open up one side by grinding away the skin a few inches in from the edges, then lift the panel off and see what you have inside. keep the bit you cut off and use it fill the hole after the internals have been fixed.

Good luck and fair winds.

 

[Daydream believer]

If you Google JEFA & look on their site they explain several rudder construction methods & it gives a good grounding on how they are constructed
Worth a look

 

[Daydream believer]

View attachment 45640

 

[Daydream believer]

View attachment 45641

This pic plus the one in the last post was the rudder on my yacht this year after i grounded in the Inverness Firth near Kessock bridge
The bank was hard sand with boulders in it & I only grounded lightly
The other half is floating in the North sea somewhere I suppose
Delayed my S H round UK trip a bit but now have a nice new Jefa rudder which i am confident is a bit better than the last rubbish

 

[Concerto]

The reason I mentioned the Maxi comment as my surveyor mentioned they always had a drain hole whilst conducting my survey He did mention several maufacturers did the same. I did find it slightly strange, but he did give some reasons at the time.

He at the time was recommending I open up the rudder just to check the insides as oldsaltoz has suggested. However the marks he said was leakage from around the rudder stock was in fact run off from the hull - not from inside the rudder. All the testing I did over the next couple of months did not detect any water inside my rudder so decided to leave alone for the moment.

No doubt other Maxi owners will confirm my comment.

 

[vasant]

Hello all.
Thanks for your comments.

Please mind that in my case the rudder is transom hung so it does NOT have a rudder stock!!!
Also on the upper part which is outside the water it feels very heavy so cannot be empty at least at this part.