andyb
New member
I am refurbishing my Husky 24 motor sailer, can anyone offer advice on fitting a hot water system, to service the small galley and a small sink in the heads
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Water Heater
- Thread starter andyb
- Start date
MedMan
New member
On a 24 footer? I would recommend a kettle!
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andyb
New member
I would have put money on that reply!!
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ccscott49
Active member
Have to agree with medman, but a small calorifier in your engine cooling circuit would be enough, if you motor sail mostly. If you sail a lot and have gas, a little instant gas water heater would also be fine. I would go for the calorifier. Do you have a pressurised fresh water circuit? You will need that aswell, I think.
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Modulation
Member
You don't need hot water any less just because your boat is small! The water is for the occupants not the boat!!!!! Anyway my query is about the instant gas water heaters. I've often considered fitting one as the a re less exoensive than calorifier jobs and don't need the engine to be run - and you don't run ouy of water whenhaving a shower. Why are they not more common? Is there an insurance angle or what?
It baffles me.
<hr width=100% size=1>Brendan
It baffles me.
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andyb
New member
Thanks Brenden,
I agree totally, with a young family on board ,I thought it would be easier to install
a heater, than wonder around with a boiling hot kettle in my hand,
I will make some enquiries in the coming week ref. the gas heater
Thanks Andy
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I agree totally, with a young family on board ,I thought it would be easier to install
a heater, than wonder around with a boiling hot kettle in my hand,
I will make some enquiries in the coming week ref. the gas heater
Thanks Andy
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tillergirl
Well-known member
I have a gas water heater. It's effectively a small Ascot type device. Main problem of my is that it doesn't have a balanced flue - in fact it doesn't have a flue so I only use it when the hatch is open and I never leave the pilot light on. We have no shower so it doesn't get used for that and I wouldn't use it without a flue for that length of time. It delivers very hot water instantly which is great for washing/washing up. Tthere is a need for pressurised water (obviously) and the water pump pressure and needs of the water heater must match - not that that's much of a problem. It does get through some gas although I couldn't possibly quantify that for you.
There is a make called Rinnai or something similar which is much neater than my old thing and can be got with a flue. Given that I have all the bits set up and I don't want to upset the trim of the vessel with the weight of a full calorifier, I shall probably go for the Rinnai when this one dies.
On my last survey, the water heater was not that popular with the surveyor but this was because it's suitated right by the companion way with some rectangular edges which are not the bluntest and she was worried about someone falling against it in a seaway. The outcome was that I had a recommendation to fit a stainless steel crash bar.
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There is a make called Rinnai or something similar which is much neater than my old thing and can be got with a flue. Given that I have all the bits set up and I don't want to upset the trim of the vessel with the weight of a full calorifier, I shall probably go for the Rinnai when this one dies.
On my last survey, the water heater was not that popular with the surveyor but this was because it's suitated right by the companion way with some rectangular edges which are not the bluntest and she was worried about someone falling against it in a seaway. The outcome was that I had a recommendation to fit a stainless steel crash bar.
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robbieg
Active member
I researched this last year. The conclusion was that although you can buy a gas water heater (Riami?) you won't find a corgi register gas fitter who will put it in for you. Apparently changes to the gas regs have made it effectively very difficult to legally fit these to boats unless you are prepared to take the risk & do it yourself with all the insurance issues if something goes wrong in the future.
There is apparently some kind of boiler system you can fit but its quite expensive-certainly more than a calorifier. Suggest you speak to Peter at Southampton calor gas marine shop-he seems to be an expert on the subject & I've found him very helpful. You can get his details with a google search.
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There is apparently some kind of boiler system you can fit but its quite expensive-certainly more than a calorifier. Suggest you speak to Peter at Southampton calor gas marine shop-he seems to be an expert on the subject & I've found him very helpful. You can get his details with a google search.
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charles_reed
Active member
Paloma LPG heaters. probably only available from caravan shops.
Excellent devices but, since 1994, all gas geysers have had to be fitted with an external-venting balanced flue to conform to regulations. This is almost impossible on a boat, caravaners get round it by having a flue-hood which is, apparently, a bit of a fudge and could be rejected under the regulations.
Fortunately my boat was built in 1990 with one fitted and as legislation is not retrospective and I avoid Corgi installers like the plague..
In practice the build up of CO could be lethal in a confined space and, whilst fitted with an adequate flame-failure device I only turn it on when I'm actually using it. Constant high water-pressure is a must for it operating effectively and your water pump needs to be set to very close on/off values with an effective pressure-reservoir in the system.
A calorifier/immersion heating system is probably more reliable if far heavier and more expensive.
The separate boiler/central heating systems are only really feasible for larger boats and those with deep pockets.
There are, as always, kettles to produce hot water.
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Excellent devices but, since 1994, all gas geysers have had to be fitted with an external-venting balanced flue to conform to regulations. This is almost impossible on a boat, caravaners get round it by having a flue-hood which is, apparently, a bit of a fudge and could be rejected under the regulations.
Fortunately my boat was built in 1990 with one fitted and as legislation is not retrospective and I avoid Corgi installers like the plague..
In practice the build up of CO could be lethal in a confined space and, whilst fitted with an adequate flame-failure device I only turn it on when I'm actually using it. Constant high water-pressure is a must for it operating effectively and your water pump needs to be set to very close on/off values with an effective pressure-reservoir in the system.
A calorifier/immersion heating system is probably more reliable if far heavier and more expensive.
The separate boiler/central heating systems are only really feasible for larger boats and those with deep pockets.
There are, as always, kettles to produce hot water.
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migel
New member
with respect charles,
a landlord in my local city, avoided using "corgi registered persons" ,result was students lost thier lives.
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a landlord in my local city, avoided using "corgi registered persons" ,result was students lost thier lives.
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Modulation
Member
I'm a bit perplexed about the idea of balanced flue gas heaters. There are a number of chandlers selling Rinnai gas water heaters and I dont think these are balanced flue arrangements.
My understanding of a balanced flue is that it draws air directly from outside for combustion, and the exhaust products are discharged directly the outside. Why should this be necessary on a boat when the supply of fresh air is good? Granted that you will need a flue to get rid of the exhaust products but to supply combustion air also.....? I think not!
<hr width=100% size=1>Brendan
My understanding of a balanced flue is that it draws air directly from outside for combustion, and the exhaust products are discharged directly the outside. Why should this be necessary on a boat when the supply of fresh air is good? Granted that you will need a flue to get rid of the exhaust products but to supply combustion air also.....? I think not!
<hr width=100% size=1>Brendan
Heckler
Active member
oh dear me
cold night all buttoned up tight, combustion air from inside boat, oxygen level drops poor combustion, carbon monoxide etc etc and so you die.
thats why they pass laws to protect people who dont know any better
stu
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cold night all buttoned up tight, combustion air from inside boat, oxygen level drops poor combustion, carbon monoxide etc etc and so you die.
thats why they pass laws to protect people who dont know any better
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
MainlySteam
New member
While in the end it is obviously a personal preference decision, I agree with Medman - I would without doubt use a kettle.
We have an immersion system (when on shore power), calorifier off the engine and a gas califont. While we are conditioned somewhat in this in that we go away to relatively remote areas for weeks at a time, but usually only my wife and myself, we find the califont very wasteful of water. Without careful planning for mixing to get the right temperature in the basin, often the cold water between the califont and the basin is wasted (ours is located midway between the galley and the bathroom). In any event one always has to use, if one wants at least warm water, all the cold water in the pipework plus the hot needed to warm it up. In our case that is often more water than one would otherwise use - obviously that is not an issue if the califont can be installed immediately above all taps drawing off it.
So we find it goes like this. If in the marina have plenty of power and plenty of water, so the immersion system is used and we use all the water we want. If away we boil water in the kettle and for casual hand washing just use cold water and liquid soap (which works in salt water too). If away and we have plenty of water (we can fill our tanks from rain) then we time any major hot water needs to the engine charge cycle or still just use the kettle if not using the shower.
In the end the califont is rarely used and I possibly would not fit one to another boat of my own. But I would certainly have a kettle first, then the immersion heating system, then the engine calorifier.
Putting all that aside, if one only day sails (which we rarely do) I could not imagine using the quantities of hot water which would justify a gas califont.
John
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We have an immersion system (when on shore power), calorifier off the engine and a gas califont. While we are conditioned somewhat in this in that we go away to relatively remote areas for weeks at a time, but usually only my wife and myself, we find the califont very wasteful of water. Without careful planning for mixing to get the right temperature in the basin, often the cold water between the califont and the basin is wasted (ours is located midway between the galley and the bathroom). In any event one always has to use, if one wants at least warm water, all the cold water in the pipework plus the hot needed to warm it up. In our case that is often more water than one would otherwise use - obviously that is not an issue if the califont can be installed immediately above all taps drawing off it.
So we find it goes like this. If in the marina have plenty of power and plenty of water, so the immersion system is used and we use all the water we want. If away we boil water in the kettle and for casual hand washing just use cold water and liquid soap (which works in salt water too). If away and we have plenty of water (we can fill our tanks from rain) then we time any major hot water needs to the engine charge cycle or still just use the kettle if not using the shower.
In the end the califont is rarely used and I possibly would not fit one to another boat of my own. But I would certainly have a kettle first, then the immersion heating system, then the engine calorifier.
Putting all that aside, if one only day sails (which we rarely do) I could not imagine using the quantities of hot water which would justify a gas califont.
John
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charles_reed
Active member
Legislation
in the UK, following on from an EU directive (which therefore applies to other EU) countries demands that any geyser (or califont) be fitted so as not to discharge CO into the sealed room in which it is fitted. The balanced flue is the only sure way to do that.
It is probable that if you asked a qualified, registered gas fitter to put a califont (or geyser) into a boat, he would have to refuse, unless you were prepared to compromise the watertight integrity of your boat.
As you know, laws tend to be passed to eliminate discussion and enforce a single approach, in this case your perfectly reasonable arguments would probably be ignored.
I would be concerned at my position vis-a-vis criminal prosecution if I were the stockist of a Rinnai heater (of which I have no knowledge) in the UK or, probably, Spain.
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in the UK, following on from an EU directive (which therefore applies to other EU) countries demands that any geyser (or califont) be fitted so as not to discharge CO into the sealed room in which it is fitted. The balanced flue is the only sure way to do that.
It is probable that if you asked a qualified, registered gas fitter to put a califont (or geyser) into a boat, he would have to refuse, unless you were prepared to compromise the watertight integrity of your boat.
As you know, laws tend to be passed to eliminate discussion and enforce a single approach, in this case your perfectly reasonable arguments would probably be ignored.
I would be concerned at my position vis-a-vis criminal prosecution if I were the stockist of a Rinnai heater (of which I have no knowledge) in the UK or, probably, Spain.
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