Water heater for shower

pvb said:
Instantaneous gas heaters have been used on boats for years, I had one in a Westerly Pentland in the 70s, and it allowed the luxury of long hot showers.
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I'm inclined to read that as a definite positive review.

Is it a downside that the thing must sit on deck to operate, or live in a suitably vented locker separate from the accommodation?

Long hot showers...no high electricity consumption...no need to start the engine. Au revoir, calorifier. (Metaphorically, I don't have one to get rid of.)
 
dancrane said:
I'm inclined to read that as a definite positive review.

Is it a downside that the thing must sit on deck to operate, or live in a suitably vented locker separate from the accommodation?
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Yes, having the heater was a positive experience. You have to remember that it was 40 years ago, in the days before H&S. The heater I had was mounted on the bulkhead in the heads/shower, and wasn't room-sealed, so would be considered today to be hugely dangerous! But you can get room-sealed heaters now which could be mounted in the heads, all you have to do is engineer some sort of cover to keep seawater out of the balanced flue when you're not using the heater.
 
Back to basics - why do you need a 30 litre tank of hot water?

You will need a thermostatic mixer whatever your solution. Assume your hot water is at 80deg and your cold is 20deg. Then to get a shower at 40deg the cold water flow will be twice the hot so a 30l tank will give you 90 litres of hot water - quite a lot of showers!

A smaller calorifier, eg 15l, is going to be easier to fit, control and heat up and give you 45 litres of hot water.
 
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pvb said:
It would still be advisable to have a room-sealed appliance.
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Why? the heater would require a twin wall flue which is considerably more expensive.
Also, the Morco heater itself is only £277
OK I do need a bit of plumbing and a flue etc, but I would need that in any case.
As I said I am spending 3 to 4 thousand pounds on upgrading systems on Shady so I need to be careful.
 
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poter said:
Why? the heater would require a twin wall flue which is considerably more expensive.
Also, the Morco heater itself is only £277
OK I do need a bit of plumbing and a flue etc, but I would need that in any case.
As I said I am spending 3 to 4 thousand pounds on upgrading systems on Shady so I need to be careful.
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Cannot believe you are seriously thinking of fitting one of these. By the time you have fitted it and run gas to it and plumbed it into your water system the cost will be similar to a 15 or 20 litre calorifier which are available for under £400. Totally safe, can be hidden underneath a bunk, uses "free" heat from the engine with an alternative of mains power. Is it any wonder that nobody fits gas heaters to new boats (and rarely to existing boats). Calorifiers are almost universal because they are the "best" solution to hot water on a typical cruising yacht such as yours.
 
Tranona said:
Cannot believe you are seriously thinking of fitting one of these. By the time you have fitted it and run gas to it and plumbed it into your water system the cost will be similar to a 15 or 20 litre calorifier which are available for under £400. Totally safe, can be hidden underneath a bunk, uses "free" heat from the engine with an alternative of mains power. Is it any wonder that nobody fits gas heaters to new boats (and rarely to existing boats). Calorifiers are almost universal because they are the "best" solution to hot water on a typical cruising yacht such as yours.
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I think you're missing the point here. You assume that everyone has either shorepower or runs their engine everytime they go sailing. It's perfectly possible to sail for several days without either in which case this is a perfectly viable solution.
 
Lodesman77 said:
I think you're missing the point here. You assume that everyone has either shorepower or runs their engine everytime they go sailing. It's perfectly possible to sail for several days without either in which case this is a perfectly viable solution.
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When did you last see a boat fitted with such a heater? Everybody else seems to manage quite OK with a calorifier. Not perfect - things rarely are on a small yacht - but the best compromise.
 
poter said:
Why? the heater would require a twin wall flue which is considerably more expensive.
Also, the Morco heater itself is only £277
OK I do need a bit of plumbing and a flue etc, but I would need that in any case.
As I said I am spending 3 to 4 thousand pounds on upgrading systems on Shady so I need to be careful.
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You need to be more careful with your life! It's not safe to fit an unsealed gas heater.
 
Lodesman77 said:
I think you're missing the point here. You assume that everyone has either shorepower or runs their engine everytime they go sailing. It's perfectly possible to sail for several days without either in which case this is a perfectly viable solution.
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We have the engine-heated/mains calorifier set-up. It works well for us. We usually motor in and out of ports and anchorages and also I'm quite happy to motorsail for an hour or so just to get hot water and charge the batteries. It doesn't spoil the sailing; the only downside is the noise. When at anchor for a few days we resort to washing with water heated on the stove. It's no problem.
 
Lodesman77 said:
I think you're missing the point here. You assume that everyone has either shorepower or runs their engine everytime they go sailing. It's perfectly possible to sail for several days without either in which case this is a perfectly viable solution.
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If you're sailing for days without running the engine for propulsion it doesn't mean you can't run it for a short while to heat some hot water. Just motorsail at the end of the day for long enough to heat some water. It won't take long, will also put some charge into the batteries and most likely cost less than small bottles of LPG.
 
PaulRainbow said:
If you're sailing for days without running the engine for propulsion it doesn't mean you can't run it for a short while to heat some hot water. Just motorsail at the end of the day for long enough to heat some water. It won't take long, will also put some charge into the batteries and most likely cost less than small bottles of LPG.
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Agree with you - it's a 'sensible' solution. But you can't beat the sheer joy/satisfaction of spending a few days sailing without going near a marina or suffering the intrusion of the engine. After all, if you can't manage that then your boat is just an RV...
 
Lodesman77 said:
Agree with you - it's a 'sensible' solution. But you can't beat the sheer joy/satisfaction of spending a few days sailing without going near a marina or suffering the intrusion of the engine. After all, if you can't manage that then your boat is just an RV...
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Do you have a gas water heater in your boat? Would be useful to have your experiences with it.
 
Tranona said:
Do you have a gas water heater in your boat? Would be useful to have your experiences with it.
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Not had one for a long time now - currently using the boiled kettle method as required - but experience of an ancient Rinnai (probably now considered as lethal by the h&s brigade) proved to be a convenient source of hot water on demand. I would certainly consider it a good alternative to planning a period of running the engine into a day's sailing. And would you want to fire up the engine first thing in the morning in a quiet anchorage just to get hot water?

My current engine is an ancient raw water cooled volvo, now being replaced with something newer which will allow me to fit a calorifier, which I may well subsequently do as it is a sensible choice - but I would also consider a modern gas heater as an equally valid choice.
 
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We have a non-room sealed gas water heater on board. One was already fitted when we got the boat and we have replaced it with another since (Rinnai - no longer available I believe). We carry 700 litres of water and so (with sufficient gas) have 700 litres of hot water if we want it. We don't need to waste energy heating water to store; we just heat it as we need it. We wouldn't be without it. Providing the potential dangers are understood they can be managed. The heater (& gas supply to it) is only on whilst we're using it. We have a CO alarm and test it regularly. The great thing about boats (not inland waterways of course) is that we still have freedom of choice. Each to their own :)
 
Lodesman77 said:
Agree with you - it's a 'sensible' solution. But you can't beat the sheer joy/satisfaction of spending a few days sailing without going near a marina or suffering the intrusion of the engine. After all, if you can't manage that then your boat is just an RV...
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I'm with you on the kettle as required when i'm in the marina, would be silly to run the engine when on shore power and i'm far to tight to leave the calorifier on all day :) Kettle of hot water in the morning for a cuppa and a wash, another one at the end of the day for a cuppa and some washing up. Marina showers are fine.

I wouldn't be adverse to running the engine while away though, if i was i'd be happy with a kettle of hot water for a wash.
 
ghostlymoron said:
I've sometimes resorted to an Aussie shower when pressed.
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Go on then, somebody had to ask...what's that? Not washing in amber nectar, I hope?

Lodesman77 said:
I think you're missing the point here. You assume that everyone has either shorepower or runs their engine everytime they go sailing. It's perfectly possible to sail for several days without either in which case this is a perfectly viable solution.
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To my mind, an independent source of water-heating is basic to the concept of extended cruising pleasure - not needing shorepower or marina shower facilities, or having to fall back on an internal combustion engine; and it must be intrinsic to the seamanlike approach which includes readiness for failure of systems...

...presumably a sailing yacht with auxiliary diesel and calorifier, on a cruise that goes beyond marina-hopping, quickly becomes a smelly place if the boat's secondary means of propulsion fails? It may suit some to motor-sail for a while each day, not to improve the vessel's progress, but simply for the crew to have a hot wash...but it wouldn't be my choice.

I can't easily see why the use of a modern, flued instant water heater is here discouraged by the memory of primitive equivalents which aren't vented. Considering how much comfort-related kit is installed on the modern cruising yacht to allow versatility of use, why would anyone decline a safe, instant hot water system which isn't megabucks, doesn't batter the batteries and doesn't rely on starting an engine?

I've no experience of a calorifier. Does the engine need to run for long, to produce sufficiently warm water? If it does need to run for a while (and considering that hot water is merely a by-product of the engine's operation) it seems disagreeably wasteful, as well as noisy...

...and if it doesn't require the diesel to run for long, doesn't that typify misuse of a diesel auxiliary, in which the engine barely gets up to working temperature before being shut off? Don't diesels suffer from idling rather than running close to their rated output? Or is the calorifier at its best with the diesel roaring away at high revs for 15 minutes?

My sailing budget has lately shrunk, so my outlook is (at best) down to outboard-auxiliary cabin boats again. Disregarding the likely guffaws of bigger-boat owners who may be pleased to imagine (or recall) smaller-boat crews as literally the great unwashed, what more versatile solution can there be, regardless of a yacht's size and equipment, than a dedicated, safe, efficient, quiet, flued instant gas water heater?
 
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