Waste of space- internal layout

The table question. Some 70/80's race boats had the engine central in the saloon with a table jerry built around it. Kept the weight low and central plus good all round access. Combine that with a decent table, modern sound proofing and a hydraulic drive with ventilation via a handhold pillar and it could be made to work well. Also frees up a load of space under the cockpit and behind the companion.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Surprised in this day and age no one has mentioned a desk at which one can work with space for computer, monitor, printer and files. Chart tables, especially modern vestigial ones, are not quite right in this respect.
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Our "Nav Station" is suitable for computer use - more so than serious paper chart work. If we were ever to upgrade our current boat (very unlikely now), then an office would figure well up the list - an option on the Beneteau Sense 50.
 
Our 'old style' 32 footer had no saloon table, which certainly gave a feeling of (relative!) space. I made a pedestal table for up to 6 with a single drop leaf, which can be used as a double berth infill. This obstructs passage forward much less than the traditional style, but is a still a nuisance to squeeze around just to sit. So earlier posts remind me that I have promised to make a smaller top, without a leaf, which will be much more convenient for 2, but manage 4 at a pinch. But as T_K says, also having a good old-fashioned chart table helps a lot, providing an office or (with care) extra galley surface when needed.

As the q'berth is also the chart table seat, a detachable back rest on the front of the table would make reading in bed more comfortable, as would a drop-down 'music stand' book holder. Such little niceties can make a big difference - as Charles Stock said of the bamboo he kept to adjust the leg of his pyjamas :).
 
Twister_Ken said:
Surprised in this day and age no one has mentioned a desk at which one can work with space for computer, monitor, printer and files. Chart tables, especially modern vestigial ones, are not quite right in this respect.
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The chart table at the foot of the companionway seems to date from the period when offshore racing was the driving force of design and communication between the demon navigator and the helm was considered important. An office type space in an aft cabin or in the mid part of the boat perhaps makes more sense now. Used to be a feature of some US boats that had offset companionways and skipper's cabin complete with desk in the other 2/3 of the aft part of the boat. A pilot house makes life easier and some Nauticats have an office type desk with a real chair and an L shaped worktop with storage around and under.
 
pmagowan said:
What about windows in the hull. They give good internal light but not such a good idea if one gets damaged.
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Agreed - we have large windows in the hull, but I would keep out of heavy seas. It's horses for courses really, isn't it? I don't know how you anticipate using your boat - many here get very hung up about ocean crossing capabilities when I'm reasonably confident they will never be more that 50 miles offshore!
 
pmagowan said:
What about windows in the hull. They give good internal light but not such a good idea if one gets damaged.
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There are rules in the RCD about windows in hulls - can't quote them specifically, but they are to do with size and security.
 
pmagowan said:
What a pain, I had a reply and then lost it to the ether!!

Why do you think the storage should be for'd as I would initially assume that aft was better; no dragging damp dripping clothes through the boat and more convenient for changing and going up the gangway. Also aft tends to be near the stuff that generates waste heat that might be useful for drying things.

With your 'twin bunk midships' do you simply mean sea berths which are generally the saloon seating with a lee cloth. I saw one where the shelf behind the seat made the upper berth. This works well for bunking down under way. I would not want a great big owners berth aft as I could not justify the use of space for something that is simply a bed.

My father has the same idea re handholds and he complains about the modern designs for being poorly equipped with them. I intend to have all the string running back to the cockpit so that above, work on the coachroof is limited.
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I guess it all depends on what you want to do. If 3 double berths and not using the saloon for sleeping is a driver you will be limited as to where you can fit them. The other drivers will be construction features such as location of bulkheads and engine. When I said twin bunks I meant dedicated proper bunks in a dedicated cabin not converted seats with lee cloths. Wet lockers quite rightly need to be close to a source of heat if possible or where the water doesn't matter. Some would be prepared to hang wet stuff in the shower while at sea (assuming there is a shower space) where at least the water will run to a drain and probably have space to air rather than crammed into a small dedicated space. Also berths right fwd are generally not great at sea and also tend to be very tapered which isn't great. My fore peak happens to be fitted out for storage with a fold down bunk for harbour use. I happen to like it but I'm also happy for the saloon to be used for sleeping, somthing I have to accept in a boat the size of mine.

Yoda
 
I was talking to an AWB dealer the other day about the popularity of different models of sailing boats, and he said that he believed that the linear galley arrangement often found on 40-43ft boats wasn't attractive to buyers. He reckons they prefer an L-shaped island galley. As a result, their best selling boat is a sub-40ft. The problem obviously is that, with increasing length, comes increasing beam, and there's a point (maybe around 39ft) where it isn't practical to have a central table and seats on both sides. Hence the offset table and island settee or movable seats.
 
pmagowan said:
What about windows in the hull. They give good internal light but not such a good idea if one gets damaged.
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They are stronger than the GRP that would have been in the hole if the window was not fitted.
 
pvb said:
Are they? Surely chopping a hole in the fibreglass destroys some of its structural integrity? And a window can fall out or break.
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The hole will be reinforced to take account of the window aperture and the polymer window is the stuff you can swing a sledge hammer at. Next time you see a modern design batter the GRP with a sledge hammer and then the window, see which is still intact, I jest of course. The adhesives used to hold hull windows in e.g. of the Sikaflex brand are approved as structural adhesives by Lloyds suitable for mounting windows which are likely to take a battering by the sea. My comments are only applicable to the bonded in windows that cant be opened, not hatch types that can be e.g. Lewmar Ocean hatch mounted on a catamaran for escape purposes on the hull near the water line. I guess if that hatch got whacked it could bend on its frame and lose its integrity.
 
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