Was Childers a traitor?

[dylanwinter]

Ok, in all seriousness, Childers was executed by the Irish Free State during the civil war that followed southern Irelands split with the north, and the UK. Childers continued to campaign for a united free Ireland, whilst the Free State was determined to hold onto what had been gained. Childers last months were spent essentially as the Republican press officer writing propaganda against the Free State. However he was seen as a military threat (having served in the Boer War and the First World War) and was accused by the Free State of taking part in Republican actions against them.

After the Assassination of Michael Collins there was no one left in the hierarchy of the Free State who would stand up for Childers and what he had done for Ireland and so he was hunted down, arrested and shot, ostensibly for the possession of a pistol (which was ironically a gift from Michael Collins.)

The British as far as I'm aware had no hand in his death. If anything the speed at which he was executed was more to do with preventing anyone having the time to drum up opposition to the execution of one of the most pivotal characters in the independence of Ireland.

Quite what action the British would have liked to have taken on behalf of his gun running antics I don't know. But since he was raised an Irishman, if not actually born one I can sympathise with his actions. He did have a very fine taste in boats too.

so should I re-edit this book review

 

[PeterHoare]

Traitor? As Antarctic Pilot says - it depends who you ask.

My copy of The Riddle of the Sands has a forword by Lord Longford in which he points out that Childers was a decorated war hero, serving with the Royal Naval Air Service, for which he volunteered despite being 44 at the time. Being half Irish, and brought up by Irish relatives after his parents' death, he considered himself to be more Irish than English. He was the secretary of the Irish delegation at the treaty negotiations in London in 1921. Lord Longford goes on to say 'It was never likely for a moment that he would personally support the treaty. No-one in these cooler times could hold him reponsible for the tragic civil war which followed. No one, then or simce, would expect him to survive it.'

His execution followed his arrest in possession of a pistol which had been given to him by Michael Collins.

A tragic story in tragic times.

 

[dylanwinter]

Ok, in all seriousness, Childers was executed by the Irish Free State during the civil war that followed southern Irelands split with the north, and the UK. Childers continued to campaign for a united free Ireland, whilst the Free State was determined to hold onto what had been gained. Childers last months were spent essentially as the Republican press officer writing propaganda against the Free State. However he was seen as a military threat (having served in the Boer War and the First World War) and was accused by the Free State of taking part in Republican actions against them.

After the Assassination of Michael Collins there was no one left in the hierarchy of the Free State who would stand up for Childers and what he had done for Ireland and so he was hunted down, arrested and shot, ostensibly for the possession of a pistol (which was ironically a gift from Michael Collins.)

The British as far as I'm aware had no hand in his death. If anything the speed at which he was executed was more to do with preventing anyone having the time to drum up opposition to the execution of one of the most pivotal characters in the independence of Ireland.

Quite what action the British would have liked to have taken on behalf of his gun running antics I don't know. But since he was raised an Irishman, if not actually born one I can sympathise with his actions. He did have a very fine taste in boats too.

so should I re-edit this book review

 

[Woodlouse]

so should I re-edit this book review

Well, strictly speaking Childers was not shot for being a traitor, and he certainly wasn't shot by the English. So if you wish to avoid having smug gits pointing that out then I'd consider altering it. Might look into reading the Ransome book one day though, I know very little about what he got up to when he wasn't writing Swallows and Amazons.

 

[dylanwinter]

Traitor? As Antarctic Pilot says - it depends who you ask.

My copy of The Riddle of the Sands has a forword by Lord Longford in which he points out that Childers was a decorated war hero, serving with the Royal Naval Air Service, for which he volunteered despite being 44 at the time. Being half Irish, and brought up by Irish relatives after his parents' death, he considered himself to be more Irish than English. He was the secretary of the Irish delegation at the treaty negotiations in London in 1921. Lord Longford goes on to say 'It was never likely for a moment that he would personally support the treaty. No-one in these cooler times could hold him reponsible for the tragic civil war which followed. No one, then or simce, would expect him to survive it.'

His execution followed his arrest in possession of a pistol which had been given to him by Michael Collins.

A tragic story in tragic times.

the way he dealt with his own death is astonishing


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Erskine_Childers

Before his execution, in a spirit of reconciliation, Childers shook hands with each of the firing squad.[5] He also obtained a promise from his then 16-year-old son, the future President Erskine Hamilton Childers, to seek out and shake the hand of every man who had signed his father's death warrant.[112] His last words, spoken to them, were (characteristically) in the nature of a joke: "Take a step or two forward, lads. It will be easier that way."[113]

Winston Churchill, who had actively pressured Michael Collins and the Free State government to make the treaty work by crushing the rebellion, expressed the widely held view of Childers at the time: "No man has done more harm or shown more genuine malice or endeavoured to bring a greater curse upon the common people of Ireland than this strange being, actuated by a deadly and malignant hatred for the land of his birth."[114] Some Irish (principally those against the treaty) claimed Childers's execution was politically motivated revenge, an expedient method of halting the continuing flow of anti-British political texts for which Childers was widely credited.

Eamon deValera said of him, "He died the Prince he was. Of all the men I ever met, I would say he was the noblest".[115]

 

[Woodlouse]

Oh, and if you wish for further reading, 'Erskine Childers' by Jim Ring is a well written, balanced and sympathetic account of his life.

 

[dylanwinter]

Well, strictly speaking Childers was not shot for being a traitor, and he certainly wasn't shot by the English. So if you wish to avoid having smug gits pointing that out then I'd consider altering it. Might look into reading the Ransome book one day though, I know very little about what he got up to when he wasn't writing Swallows and Amazons.

I did not say that he was shot by the English in the review

but was he shot for being a traitor?

my understanding of the nuances of irish politics at the time is obviously not up to scratch

time to do some more reading

I shall wait and see if more people get outraged before pulling the comment

 

[oldbilbo]

".... in all the history of the Irish there is heroism and villainy entwined...."

and

"....History is written by the victors...."

 

[Tranona]

Mock ye not

http://www.thenationalmouseclub.co.uk/breeds.php

THE GENERAL STANDARD OF EXCELLENCE

"The mouse must be long on body with long clean head, not too fine or pointed at the nose, the eyes should be large, bold and prominent. The ears large and tulip shaped, free from creases, carried erect with plenty of width between them. The body should be long and slim, a trifle arched over the loin and racy in appearance; the tail, which must be free from kinks should come well out of the back and be thick at the root or set-on, gradually tapering like a whip lash to a fine end, the length being about equal to that of the mouse's body. Unless the variety standard states otherwise, the coat should be short perfectly smooth, glossy and sleek to the hand. The mouse should be perfectly tractable and free from any vice and not subject to fits or other similar ailments. A mouse with absence of whiskers, blind in one or both eyes, carrying external parasites, having a tumour, sore or patches of fur missing, suffering from any obvious disease or deformity or kinked tail shall be disqualified."
GENERAL REMARKS

Written standards are necessarily under some limitation. Words cannot convey an exact idea of what any mouse should look like. This applies with special force to the definition of colour. Attendance at shows is urged upon all who wish to form a precise picture of any variety and it cannot be too strongly stated that nothing can take the place of inspection of specimen mice.

I shall recover the remains from the dustbin of the mouse my Labrador pup brought me for my breakfast this morning to see how it measures up against the standard!

 

[Plyn]

Another Biography is 'Dangerous Waters' by Leonard Piper.

 

[capnsensible]

Having read his book, they may well have shot him for being boring....

 

[LittleSister]

And after Ransome and Childers, next week's programme considers the strange life and death of Roger Casement.

(Lights blue touch paper and retires.)

 

[Contest1]

Having endured the benificence of the Unionist provence in my youth, I,m inclined to view Childers as a patriot.
I got a tour of his gun running yacht, the Asgard, and picked up a few momentos during the restoration, shes now proudly on show in Collins Baracks. Well woth a visit.