Warship Courtesy Flag

[MinorSwing]

The correct courtesy flag flown in any country should be the national flag. If flying a regional flag as well, for example in France a Normandy flag, the national flag (tricolour) is flown uppermost. Some French officials take the courtesy flag very seriously and can be very bad tempered if it's not flown. Courtesy flags should also be in good condition as, in some countries, flying a tattered version of the national flag is regarded as an insult and can result in a fine.

 

[Birdseye]

Courtesy flag rules vary from country to country There is no international rule. but a number of countries have their own local law requiring even specific flag sizes. In the UK the convention (not law) is to fly the Red (civil) ensign, but it is not illegal for them to fly the Union Flag as a courtesy. It is illegal for a British civil vessel to fly the Union Flag or any other UK government flag to which it is not entitled any where on board. (I think it highly unikely that anyone would ever be prosecuted, but with a cash strapped government and the right jobsworth!!!).

I was wondering about this. Is it alwaqys the red ensign? Should not foreigners who are members of the equivalent of our blue ensign clubs ( say the Royal Cork) fly a blue ensign as a courtesy flag? I am sure they would not want to be mistaken for any old foreigner.

 

[MinorSwing]

I was wondering about this. Is it alwaqys the red ensign? Should not foreigners who are members of the equivalent of our blue ensign clubs ( say the Royal Cork) fly a blue ensign as a courtesy flag? I am sure they would not want to be mistaken for any old foreigner.

The Royal Cork would not thank you for likening them to a blue ensign club. They would be more on a par with the RYS; if you've been there you would know what I mean. The only courtesy flag to be flown in British waters is the red ensign, as I'm sure you know.

 

[ffiill]

Bra and knickers!!??

 

[Birdseye]

The Royal Cork would not thank you for likening them to a blue ensign club. They would be more on a par with the RYS; if you've been there you would know what I mean. The only courtesy flag to be flown in British waters is the red ensign, as I'm sure you know.

The members of the royal Cork fly a blue ensign albeit with the paddyflag instead of the union flag. They dont fly a white ensign.

 

[MinorSwing]

The members of the royal Cork fly a blue ensign albeit with the paddyflag instead of the union flag. They dont fly a white ensign.

Only the RN and RYS are allowed to fly the white, and the Royal Cork is not a British club so the colour of their ensign is irellevant.

 

[Birdseye]

The Royal Cork would not thank you for likening them to a blue ensign club.

The members of the royal Cork fly a blue ensign albeit with the paddyflag instead of the union flag. They dont fly a white ensign.

Only the RN and RYS are allowed to fly the white, and the Royal Cork is not a British club so the colour of their ensign is irellevant.

They would be more on a par with the RYS; if you've been there you would know what I mean.

You arent being very consistent. Anyway I dont know what courtesy flag people should fly in the UK and I'm certainly not aware of any laws which mandate one or the other. Even if there were such laws, no one here could care a toss and certainly no official would ever get involved. Thank heavens we are a country that doesnt take such petty matters seriously.

 

[MinorSwing]

You arent being very consistent. Anyway I dont know what courtesy flag people should fly in the UK and I'm certainly not aware of any laws which mandate one or the other. Even if there were such laws, no one here could care a toss and certainly no official would ever get involved. Thank heavens we are a country that doesnt take such petty matters seriously.

I am being completely consistent and, by your own admission, you are arguing about something that you don't know anything about. If you don't know anything about it why are you making statements as if you do?
Members of the Royal Cork or any other foreign club would expect to fly a small red ensign as a courtesy flag when visiting UK because they do know what they're doing, they know the correct etiquette, and the flag of the British Merchant Marine is the correct flag to fly.
Instead of pontificating about something you don't know anything about, and misleading people who know even less about it than you do, why don't you research it? You'll find that the issue of courtesy flags is defined by a mixture of maritime law and tradition. Let us know what you find out.

 

[capnsensible]

Thank heavens we are a country that doesnt take such petty matters seriously.

Yes, you are very lucky. I have sailed to a few where its anything but petty and pigging off police, customs and immigration is not a good idea.

All that and you get a first class rescue service for people to complain about too!

 

[prv]

Yes, you are very lucky. I have sailed to a few where its anything but petty and pigging off police, customs and immigration is not a good idea.

I once sailed with someone who said he'd been shot at (rifle shot over the deck) for flying a courtesy flag incorrectly. The master complained to the local maritime bigwig, who said his sentry had behaved entirely correctly.

I believe this was somewhere in South America, probably in the late 70s.

Pete

 

[VexedIllologist]

A visiting yacht or merchant ship flies the red ensign as a courtesy flag. What flag should a visiting warship fly?

It is long-standing custom that Warships do not fly a 'courtesy flag' (as they are the sovereign territory of their nation), but they do hoist the visited nation's Naval ensign when firing 21-gun salutes or dressing ship for a local national festival etc.

That said, however, some warships today are now falling by ignorance into what is essentially a post-WW2 merchant shipping (and thus yachting) practice apparently without realising the significance of doing so. Of course, as some nations' warships try to ingratiate themselves in this way, so others will come under the pressure of local expectations to do the same.

The point is that a warship is a floating piece of sovereign territory and so it is illogical for her follow the custom and practice of merchant shipping that does not have the same legal or national status.

There is interesting information at Chapter 91 of the Queens's Regulations for the Royal Navy, but I cannot find an online link at the moment.

 

[prv]

It is long-stanfing custom that Warships do not fly a 'courtesy flag'

Yes, we worked that out back in July.

Pete

 

[VexedIllologist]

Good evening, Pete.

I have added the reference above that I thought might be helpful, although I cannot find a working online link to it tonight.

Nothing wrong with that, surely?

 

[Simondjuk]

I worked with a perfectly nice guy ... he'd go nuts and quite violent

Violent nutters. Up there with the very nicest of people, I'm sure.

 

[macd]

Try flying the Spanish flag in Catalonia...

I know of one guy who wished the Catalans did exactly that. He was the local hero at the Catalunya motorcycle grand prix about 20 years ago. The crowd went wild when he took the lead in the 500cc race, waving Catalan flags by the thousand. Unfortunately the Catalan flag looked much like the 'oil on track' flag waved by a track marshal, but how do you pick out one amongst thousands? Well, at 150mph-plus, it's tricky, so he didn't. And crashed.

 

[Sybarite]

For yachts, it really is a ' courtesy ' to fly the flag of the place one is visiting, from the starboard signal halliard just below the spreader.

Beware of regional arguments, ie Breton flag not tricolour in Brittany, and god help you if you fly a Spanish flag in Castellona !

A Cornish flag when there might help too.

I have had my boat in Brittany for 25 years. I only got a Breton flag this year. I have never had a problem.

 

[Sybarite]

Thank you. It makes sense. I think it was an American vessel that I saw.

You mention a convention. I have heard that the French gendarmes/douaniers who cruise up and down the pontoons in Cherbourg looking for a soft target for the well known "walk of shame" to the cashpoint for the inevitable fine for something not being in order, look first for those on those not flying a French courtesy flag. Is the flying of this just a convention too or something mandated?

I think they have more important things to worry about than courtesy flags. What they want to know is if you have the papers to back up the national flag you are wearing.