Warrior 35 or a Nich 38

[purplerobbie]

Thinking of changing my boat but i'm not sure?
The two i'm thinking of is the Nich 38 or the Warrior 35.
for all round liveabillity and how well they sail which do people think would be the better buy.
This will be the second time i have got a boat ready to go sailing and then decided i need a bigger one
Rob

 

[Bajansailor]

Both are very fine and seaworthy vessels.
I am guessing that an 'average' Nich 38 will probably cost a fair bit more than an 'average' Warrior, but there again it is a bit longer - hence increased marina fees....

We have a Challenger 35, which is the aft cockpit version of the Warrior - she is a very comfortable boat at sea with an easy motion, yet she will literally pick up her heels and fly in a good breeze when cracked off a bit.

There is an Owner's Association web-page at www.sail-trek.com with lots of useful info re Warriors, including some for sale.

Although we have a Warrior hull, I would admit that a Nicholson 38 probably looks better (apart from that solid dodger - but it is very practical!).
One disadvantage would be the ketch (yawl?) rig, which is not really necessary (re manageable size of the sails) on a boat of this size. Although aficionados of the rig will always point out their ability to sail under 'jib and jigger' when conditions really deteriorate.

 

[purplerobbie]

The average Nich is about 15k more than the average warrior. There are cheap Nichs and expensive warriors which will narrow the gap to about 2.5k but the cheap nich is knackared and the expensive warrior is overpriced by 10k
I do a lot of singlehanded stuff so the hard doger is a concern. I think if you needed to get out of the cockpit in a hurry to fend off or take ropes you would either take all the skin off you shins on the winches or all the skin off your back on the top.
as for the extra 3ft i think it's lost in the aft heads in the Nich. They are the same beam
Rob

 

[wayneA]

Coincidently, We changed our Seacracker 33 (Tuffglass 33 by another name) for a Warrior 35 to go long term cruising. Although the Seacracker is a great sea boat and capable yacht, we felt the accommodation/stowage wasn’t up to it for a liveaboard cruising boat.

I haven’t sailed the Nic 38, so wouldn’t comment, but FWIW below is my £0.02 on the Warrior.

The Warrior 35 - they are great ocean-going sea boats that enjoy a very good reputation for sea-worthiness and their owners are usually very enthusiastic about them. Many are sailed by ‘bluewater cruisers’ and a large percentage of Warriors have at least crossed an ocean if not done a circumnavigation - which is a good indicator of their sea keeping qualities, they'll deal with a lot more than the crew will! The cost of a Warrior is also a big consideration, as its my opinion that you would find it hard to come up with as good a proven ocean-going yacht for the same budget - this was a big part of the decision making process for us.

We find the Warrior an easy and forgiving boat to sail, although not a very fast one - she usually needs over 12 knots of wind before she will sail, tending to prefer stronger winds, but when the wind really does kick in she handles very well and will keep going when other boats are running for cover. She is really a tradewind sailing boat - she'll carry a lot of head-sail, ideal for those long downwind passages. Going to windward can be a real pain, as its not the Warrior's best point of sail - about 40deg being the closest to the wind you will get, but in lumpy seas and fresh breeze she‘ll more likely tack through 100deg. You can improve this performance by setting a blade jib on an inner forestay and sheet inside the shrouds.

As the beam is narrow at 3.2m compared to modern yachts of the same length, she tends to be tender up to 15deg of heel, at which she stiffens up considerably, and swelly seas with light wind will induce sway/roll. The long keel, with 50/50% ballast ratio (empty weight), is great for directional stability and comfort when at sea, but in harbour can make manoeuvring in close quarters ‘interesting’. Like most long keel boats with a cut-away fore foot, she won’t steer well astern - the wind will blow the bow off and the stern will find the wind - but don’t worry, you get used to it and, with practice, learn how to handle such situations.

We are full time liveaboards and find the accommodation good for the two of us, with the occasional guests using the aft cabin for a week or two. I feel the interior space is organised efficiently and includes a lot of stowage space ‘designed’ into the Warrior, IMHO a lot more than most cruising boats of her size and vintage. The cockpit is large, comfortable and good for socialising with other cruisers. The berths are good - I’m 6ft and find both fore & aft cabin berths comfortable. Headroom is excellent throughout the main part of the boat, less in the aft cabin. The saloon is small for the size of boat and is one of the compromises - in the summer we spend most of our time in the cockpit anyway.

Well that’s an (hopefully not too biased) overview, I think I’ve covered most elements but If there is anything more specific you would like to know or something I haven’t covered, please feel free to email.

Good luck with your sailing plans

Wayne

 

[Jock89]

Hi Rob, I just bought a Nic-38 last year after looking long & hard for the best value-for-money I could get, with limited resources. I'm also hoping to do a fair bit of single-handing eventually. As the boat is to be my permanent-liveaboard I needed to get something that gave me over 6'-2" headroom, liveable saloon & of course the centre-cockpit & enclosure is another little space to live in, & in inclement weather-i.e...our Northern Hemisphere...that's important if you want to keep sailing. Some of the Nic-38s I looked at were asking £40-45.K but were'nt worth anything like that, with a couple of them being very shabby & well used. One Broker I spoke to conceded that some of the cheaper & shabbier ones that need serious money spending on them, can be had for 'late K.20s to early K.30s' Every Nic-38 I looked at has had to reduce the asking price considerably & a couple are still unsold. There are 2 still on the market for (1) £45K & (2) if you're lucky-£50K after about 2 yrs...because the owners are holding out for their price, & probably don't need the money that urgently...but then these ARE, without doubt, the 2 best Nic-38s on the market. If you plan on spending between £30-£35K, you'll have to spend quite a bit more, refurbishing+renewing. Up around £40K you should get a reasonable boat, but £45 to £50K you'll get a cracker.!
The extra 3' length..? Nic-38s are quite 'long & fine' in the Bow so there's not a helluva lot you can put up there beyond the fore-cabin, (2 folding bikes & a few fenders maybe) but then they do sail well.! If you decide to look for a Nic-38, email me, as I looked at a few, up in Scotland as well, & may be able to save you some petrol-money. Let me know if you buy one.!
Regards...Jeff

 

[dazautomatics]

Rob

Having spent a considerable amount of time looking for a new blue water cruiser and having travelled more distance than our intended trip to Australia to find the right boat.

Have you conceded other options, we too have looked at the Nic38 and the Warrior 35 and have been very disappointed by both.

The Warrior for starts are in my opinion very overpriced for length, living accommodation, an unusable back cabin and some serious hull lay up problem.
We found all the boats for sale, tired after their previous endeavours and having been fitted with the kit you need to cross-oceans, most of this was tired and then badly fit in the first place. The Nic 38 is better but again the boats available are tired ketch rig means twice the cost of standing rigging and unless you like sleeping alone the two main cabins need a lot of work.

We had a wish list from previous experience gained:

Most of which can be fulfilled with a higher volume cruiser as long as the displacement is on the heavy side with a pedigree of a good builder.

If you look around there are a few westerly discus’s that will take you anywhere, there’s a Morgan 38 in Falmouth that needs a bit of TLC but will sail beautifully the old beneteau first series from the 80’s that are good boats. We also looked at boats in Holland and if we didn’t have a tight timescale and budget we would have purchased over there.

Fin keel boats will take you just as far, if your self steering gear is man enough, and you are a prudent skipper then they can be just as good if not better than a long keel (and considerably better value)

For any Warrior owners that I may have offended, I really wanted one of these I have always liked their look, but having looked around I was very disappointed and couldn’t find a decent one. Plus a good friend took his via the southern ocean on a circumnavigate, and does not have that much good to say about them.

Horses for courses….

Have you consider the Olson 35? Just as cramped and seaworthy as the Warrior but half the price.

Good luck…

Darren

 

[Richard10002]

Daz

How are you getting on with the insurance company? - perhaps PM, or a new thread "Update"

Cheers

Richard

 

[purplerobbie]

[ QUOTE ]
Coincidently, We changed our Seacracker 33 (Tuffglass 33 by another name) for a Warrior 35 to go long term cruising. Although the Seacracker is a great sea boat and capable yacht, we felt the accommodation/stowage wasn’t up to it for a liveaboard cruising boat.
Good luck with your sailing plans

Wayne

[/ QUOTE ]

I know it's like comparing apples to oranges but does the warrior sail better or worse than the seacracker?
I'm still thinking of keeping the tuffglass as i have no problems sailing it on my own and the extra it will cost me to change it could keep me going for months.
But i keep thinking the aft cabin would be really usefull

what was your seacracker called? when did you sell it?

Rob

 

[wayneA]

Hi Rob

The Seacracker we owned is called ‘Isle of Mist’ and we sold her early spring 2004.

As my pervious post, the Seacracker is a great, capable yacht. We went through the same process you are now engaged in - do we go in the Seacracker or change?

As a generalisation, I feel the Seacracker, as an IOR racer/cruiser, has a noticeably better sailing performance (esp. to windward) but the Warrior, designed as a bluewater cruiser, is a more comfortable boat at sea. With its lower freeboard and slightly more tender hull, the Seacracker is a ‘wetter’ ride but with the great cockpit coamings and a good spray hood, I never found this a problem - even going to weather in a strong breeze through a short Bristol Channel seaway.

IMHO the most important difference in sailing qualities between the Seacracker and Warrior is the directional stability and overall balance of the yacht. The Seacracker is known for its weather helm - even with a balanced sailplan/trim we found the tiller could be heavy in anything over a F3. How does yours handle - have you found similar? As you are probably aware, Van de Stadt had these issues with the original keel design of the Trintella II and re-worked the keel design to include a skeg hung rudder to create the Trintella IIb (or Seacracker/Tuffglass when built by Tylers) but although improving the weather helm, didn’t entirely fix the issue. There was a lot of talk amongst Seacracker owners about this - some suggesting moving the mast while others talked about adding more rudder forward of the skeg, as the issue is believed to be way the rudder is drawn. In general use, and a good lashing with bunggy cord, this is not necessarily a problem but could be very important for longer distance cruising. If planning long-term/distance cruising, then I feel that the self-steering systems employed on the Seacracker should be well considered.

From your post I’m not sure if your intentions are to ‘sail-away’ but as a long distance, liveaboard cruising boat, we personally had 2 issues with the accommodation in the Seacracker. Firstly, we found not enough stowage allowance - again designed as more a racer than a cruiser. Even though we are a couple, I feel that most of the kit we carry would be carried by a single-hander anyway - its surprising that a small percentage is actually individual. Secondly, we had some issues with the heads, with respect to living aboard. Again these are personal opinions as they apply to us and ‘one mans poison, etc…’. The Aft cabin is very useful, not only for occasional guests, but also for living space and stowage. I think for the extra 2ft of LOA the Warrior gives you much greater living space and is more efficient in the distribution of space/stowage for the style and ‘design era’ of hull - the design is over 40 years old after all!

Just my £0.02 worth

Cheers

Wayne

 

[heerenleed]

We have a Nicholson 48 which has the same principle: centre cockpit with wheel shelter. We find it an enormous bonus in our climes, but also in very hot weather when shade is hard to come by on a boat. On passage it is even better. Imagine a nignt passage: the sheltered cockpit keeps you a lot warmer than sitting in an open cockpit. It is true that this arrangement makes it more difficult to quickly sort fenders and lines when manoevering s/h. But then again: how much time do you spend manoevering and how much on passage?

I don't know the Warrior very well. The Nic is very good quality and sails better than any other boat this size with this kind of arrangement.

cheers