Warning, think you are VAT paid in the EU? ... Think again - both Slovenien and Croatian port authorities refuse to recognise VAT paid status of boat.

[Baggywrinkle]

Not sure how you intend to be Vat free when you are a resident in Germany..... I am really not sure a

Clearly the issue in Greece, especially with the more far flung corners such as Rhodes. But even the centre is confused despite running through the whole issue with the commission - and having France suggest in the discussions that NO UK yacht should retain Vat! The Germans supported our position! It should all come to a head over this winter.......
Re the OP, I dont exactly understand his yachts Vat position. He paid Zero rate of VAT? I believe there was a transition time for Vat when Croatia were overing a bargain discount of 5% rate - to be told off by the EU! But Zero rate - I just dont know the answer as to the transitional arrangements in place in 2016.

? .... no, I won't be free of VAT, I'll be free of VAT issues (like losing VAT status) ... and I won't have any Schengen issues either ...... my original statement was "unhindered and free of VAT and Schengen issues " .... I guess it wasn't clear that it was the issues with losing VAT status and Schengen 90/180 I will be free of, not the VAT itself.

The zero rate for VAT, or VAT deemed paid is a special case when a country joins the EU .... the EU Directive covering this is 2006/112/EC, Article 410 which states ....

Article 410

1. By way of derogation from Article 71, the importation of goods within the meaning of Article 408shall terminate without the occurrence of a chargeable event if one of the following conditions is met:

(a) the imported goods are dispatched or transported outside the enlarged Community;
(b) the imported goods within the meaning of Article 408(1)(a) are other than means of transport and are redispatched or transported to the Member State from which they were exported and to the person who exported them;
(c) the imported goods within the meaning of Article 408(1)(a) are means of transport which were acquired or imported before the date of accession in accordance with the general conditions of taxation in force on the domestic market of one of the new Member States or of one of the Member States of the Community or which have not been subject, by reason of their exportation, to any exemption from, or refund of, VAT.

2. The condition referred to in paragraph 1(c) shall be deemed to be fulfilled in the following cases:
(a) when the date of first entry into service of the means of transport was more than eight years before the accession to the European Union.
(b) when the amount of tax due by reason of the importation is insignificant.

Art. 410 VAT directive

2(a) meant that any boats older than 8 years old on the date Croatia acceded to the EU avoided a chargeable event on which VAT was payable. I specifically bought a VAT unpaid boat in Croatia to take advantage of this part of the VAT directive. Croatia dragged their heels and kept quiet about whether they intended to implement it or not, but they had no choice - every other country that had joined the EU implemented the directive.

To prevent the flight of boats under 8 years old, Croatia offered a 5% rate just before they joined, which for boats under 8 years old was a fantastic deal to get EU goods status, but boats over 8 years old didn't need to pay anyway, so I just waited.

Once Croatia had joined I completed my import procedure, paid no VAT, just import duty, and got my EU goods paperwork.

.... and thanks for the E-Mail address of the Croatian Authorities who are interpreting it all correctly, I think the issue of losing EU goods status on my boat is now cleared up so happy days and I can look for a replacement.

 

[Chris_Robb]

? .... no, I won't be free of VAT, I'll be free of VAT issues (like losing VAT status) ... and I won't have any Schengen issues either ...... my original statement was "unhindered and free of VAT and Schengen issues " .... I guess it wasn't clear that it was the issues with losing VAT status and Schengen 90/180 I will be free of, not the VAT itself.

The zero rate for VAT, or VAT deemed paid is a special case when a country joins the EU .... the EU Directive covering this is 2006/112/EC, Article 410 which states ....



Art. 410 VAT directive

2(a) meant that any boats older than 8 years old on the date Croatia acceded to the EU avoided a chargeable event on which VAT was payable. I specifically bought a VAT unpaid boat in Croatia to take advantage of this part of the VAT directive. Croatia dragged their heels and kept quiet about whether they intended to implement it or not, but they had no choice - every other country that had joined the EU implemented the directive.

To prevent the flight of boats under 8 years old, Croatia offered a 5% rate just before they joined, which for boats under 8 years old was a fantastic deal to get EU goods status, but boats over 8 years old didn't need to pay anyway, so I just waited.

Once Croatia had joined I completed my import procedure, paid no VAT, just import duty, and got my EU goods paperwork.

.... and thanks for the E-Mail address of the Croatian Authorities who are interpreting it all correctly, I think the issue of losing EU goods status on my boat is now cleared up so happy days and I can look for a replacement.

Thanks for that info. Very enlightening.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Thanks for that info. Very enlightening.

... this is the reason I was a bit upset that the same Port Authority that completed my original import paperwork were trying to strip the boat of its EU goods status.

If the Croatian Ministry of Finance Customs Admin are interpreting everything correctly, which your E-Mail shows they are, then the issue is solved and it is only a problem at the individual ports that can be cleared up relatively quickly by telling them to contact their own Ministry of Finance.

Thanks again for contacting the central Customs Administration as the E-Mail clears everything up. My broker gave me the impression that it was set in stone and that those were the Croatian rules, but he now also has the information and will be using it for all UK boat owners he has on his books.

 

[ean_p]

... this is the reason I was a bit upset that the same Port Authority that completed my original import paperwork were trying to strip the boat of its EU goods status.

If the Croatian Ministry of Finance Customs Admin are interpreting everything correctly, which your E-Mail shows they are, then the issue is solved and it is only a problem at the individual ports that can be cleared up relatively quickly by telling them to contact their own Ministry of Finance.

Thanks again for contacting the central Customs Administration as the E-Mail clears everything up. My broker gave me the impression that it was set in stone and that those were the Croatian rules, but he now also has the information and will be using it for all UK boat owners he has on his books.

Is the email you reference the one attached by three stars Baggy, or another not showing please?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Is the email you reference the one attached by three stars Baggy, or another not showing please?

It's the same one as attached by Three Stars - the E-Mail address for any query is: odjel_za_odnose_s_javnoscu@carina.hr

... which literally translates as "public_relationship_department" @ carina.hr which is the Croatian Ministry of Finance Customs Administration.

Web site is:

Home

Would be helpful if they got lots of inquiries because it might result in them issuing a statement clarifying the subject to all their port authorities.

..... of course the next question will be what do they accept as evidence for boat location in Croatia on 31.12.2020 to 01.01.2021.

 

[Chris_Robb]

... this is the reason I was a bit upset that the same Port Authority that completed my original import paperwork were trying to strip the boat of its EU goods status.

If the Croatian Ministry of Finance Customs Admin are interpreting everything correctly, which your E-Mail shows they are, then the issue is solved and it is only a problem at the individual ports that can be cleared up relatively quickly by telling them to contact their own Ministry of Finance.

Thanks again for contacting the central Customs Administration as the E-Mail clears everything up. My broker gave me the impression that it was set in stone and that those were the Croatian rules, but he now also has the information and will be using it for all UK boat owners he has on his books.

It would appear that HMRC and interested parties (RYA BMF CA ) were at a meeting yesterday that went through the new draft notice 8. The RYA brought up at that meeting that they

It's the same one as attached by Three Stars - the E-Mail address for any query is: odjel_za_odnose_s_javnoscu@carina.hr

... which literally translates as "public_relationship_department" @ carina.hr which is the Croatian Ministry of Finance Customs Administration.

Web site is:

Home

Would be helpful if they got lots of inquiries because it might result in them issuing a statement clarifying the subject to all their port authorities.

..... of course the next question will be what do they accept as evidence for boat location in Croatia on 31.12.2020 to 01.01.2021.

The Croatian Authorities at least responded within 2 days, which is rather different from the Greeks

Re Proof of being in the EU, it seems standard practice to have a letter from the boatyard you were in. Certainly the Greeks accept that, where they have been properly briefed, which is rare!

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Re Proof of being in the EU, it seems standard practice to have a letter from the boatyard you were in. Certainly the Greeks accept that, where they have been properly briefed, which is rare!

I have a statement from my Marina, I told them what I needed and they wrote a confirmation that according to their records the boat was present in the Marina on the 31.12.2020 to 01.01.2021 - so I will be testing this next Monday.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Update: The boat is sold as VAT Paid.

The Slovenian and Croatian port authorities disagreed with their Finance Ministries, but I think it was confusion as to whether the boat was UK registered and being brought to Slovenia from the UK (in fact it was already in Croatia), and the Slovenians didn't have access to the Croatian import database on which the EU goods status was registered.

Both agreed that if it was being sold by a european and was flagged in an EU country, there would be no problem, and both also agreed that if it had a T2L then it would also be no problem.

After much debate about re-flagging (possible by being a German citizen) and then selling it as a German flagged boat, I applied for a T2L in Croatia based on the original Croatian import information.

So with the help of Lagermax AED Croatia d.o.o. I got a T2L for the princely sum of €62 and everything is sorted ... the buyer has handed over the cash and I am no longer a boat owner.

Time to start the search for a replacement ?

Take-aways - a T2L seems to be the key to avoiding all the questions about boat location on B-Day and satisfies both the Slovenian and Croatian port authorities - it was not that difficult to obtain and required an ID card, the import documentation as proof of EU status and the UK Boat Registry info.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Update: The boat is sold as VAT Paid.

The Slovenian and Croatian port authorities disagreed with their Finance Ministries, but I think it was confusion as to whether the boat was UK registered and being brought to Slovenia from the UK (in fact it was already in Croatia), and the Slovenians didn't have access to the Croatian import database on which the EU goods status was registered.

Both agreed that if it was being sold by a european and was flagged in an EU country, there would be no problem, and both also agreed that if it had a T2L then it would also be no problem.

After much debate about re-flagging (possible by being a German citizen) and then selling it as a German flagged boat, I applied for a T2L in Croatia based on the original Croatian import information.

So with the help of Lagermax AED Croatia d.o.o. I got a T2L for the princely sum of €62 and everything is sorted ... the buyer has handed over the cash and I am no longer a boat owner.

Time to start the search for a replacement ?

Take-aways - a T2L seems to be the key to avoiding all the questions about boat location on B-Day and satisfies both the Slovenian and Croatian port authorities - it was not that difficult to obtain and required an ID card, the import documentation as proof of EU status and the UK Boat Registry info.

Baggy - what a palava. How about a Westerly Ocean Lord, I know of a good one for sale - PM me otherwise I will be shot....