Wanted - Zodiac Medline 6m rib

[jimmy_the_builder]

In case a phone number is listed, try that.
Marktplaats users are usually more responsive to direct contact.

Thanks for this. In fact the seller replied to my email first thing this morning, and I've had a long chat with him on the phone this afternoon. Boat sounds good so I'm planning to head over to Amsterdam on Wednesday morning to have a look. Boat is located between The Hague and Amsterdam, about half an hour from Schipol.

Any advice on the buying process for the Netherlands? Seller was a bit vague about paperwork - and I'm not familiar with regulatory requirements or convention over there.

 

[jfm]

What's the story (morning glory)?

 

[newWave]

Any advice on the buying process for the Netherlands? Seller was a bit vague about paperwork - and I'm not familiar with regulatory requirements or convention over there.

If it is a private person, there is not much you can do, except ask for the "vlaggenbrief" (litarally flag letter). This is required when the boat is faster then 20km/h or is bigger then 15m. In order to obtain one you must have proof of purchase and it must be renewed every 4 years. (So if all paperwork is lost, at least this must exist). The "vlaggenbrief" has a number on it that must be displayed on the boat so you know it belongs to that particular boat. Additionally hull number, engine HP, engine serial number and so on are listed as well.
You might want to try and pull this trough translate : http://www.varen.be/2015/09/08/de-vlaggenbrief-het-paspoort-van-uw-boot/

In case of a company selling, the most reputable sell under the HISWA rules, which usually offers a protection with a warranty.
I believe this is the HISWA document http://www.hiswa.nl/hiswa.nl/up1/ZscxxfmJC_ZkiepzmIE_Voorwaarden_AVL_2011_Engels.pdf
(The waranty is listed under GUARANTEE, which I would not use in translation)

Additionally it is not uncommon on marktplaats to present the entire package but with the possibility to buy 1 item boat,trailer,engine (usually they have the items also listed seperatly).

As a rule of thumb, Dutch are usually very friendly but also very shrewd so buyer beware.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

If it is a private person, there is not much you can do, except ask for the "vlaggenbrief" (litarally flag letter). This is required when the boat is faster then 20km/h or is bigger then 15m. In order to obtain one you must have proof of purchase and it must be renewed every 4 years. (So if all paperwork is lost, at least this must exist). The "vlaggenbrief" has a number on it that must be displayed on the boat so you know it belongs to that particular boat. Additionally hull number, engine HP, engine serial number and so on are listed as well.
You might want to try and pull this trough translate : http://www.varen.be/2015/09/08/de-vlaggenbrief-het-paspoort-van-uw-boot/

In case of a company selling, the most reputable sell under the HISWA rules, which usually offers a protection with a warranty.
I believe this is the HISWA document http://www.hiswa.nl/hiswa.nl/up1/ZscxxfmJC_ZkiepzmIE_Voorwaarden_AVL_2011_Engels.pdf
(The waranty is listed under GUARANTEE, which I would not use in translation)

Additionally it is not uncommon on marktplaats to present the entire package but with the possibility to buy 1 item boat,trailer,engine (usually they have the items also listed seperatly).

As a rule of thumb, Dutch are usually very friendly but also very shrewd so buyer beware.

That's very helpful, thanks. In fact I've written again to the seller (who is not the owner, and is not a HISWA broker) and asked for some documentation. Although the boat spec is nice, it's not worth wasting a day on a potentially fruitless trip to Amsterdam if this detail isn't correct first, so I haven't booked my flight yet.

There is also an interesting additional wiggle that I wasn't previously aware of, which is that the boat trailer is a registered vehicle in its own right - so if I do buy it, I have to go to the RDW office with the seller and deregister the trailer for export before I can nail my own UK number plate on the back and head for home.

 

[rafiki_]

That's very helpful, thanks. In fact I've written again to the seller (who is not the owner, and is not a HISWA broker) and asked for some documentation. Although the boat spec is nice, it's not worth wasting a day on a potentially fruitless trip to Amsterdam if this detail isn't correct first, so I haven't booked my flight yet.

There is also an interesting additional wiggle that I wasn't previously aware of, which is that the boat trailer is a registered vehicle in its own right - so if I do buy it, I have to go to the RDW office with the seller and deregister the trailer for export before I can nail my own UK number plate on the back and head for home.

J, post 2012 Eu regs state all trailers are vehicles, and thus must be registered. UK fudged the regs. Large trailers, O3 and O4 are tested annually by DVSA, plated at first reg, and recorded by DVSA. O1's and 2's, littl 'uns, caravans, boat and car trailers are "registered" by the retailer. Netherlands and most Eu do it properly.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

J, post 2012 Eu regs state all trailers are vehicles, and thus must be registered. UK fudged the regs. Large trailers, O3 and O4 are tested annually by DVSA, plated at first reg, and recorded by DVSA. O1's and 2's, littl 'uns, caravans, boat and car trailers are "registered" by the retailer. Netherlands and most Eu do it properly.

Aha thanks P, didn't know all that. No further reply from seller, so we are all sat on hands here now until we hear from him.

 

[petem]

J, post 2012 Eu regs state all trailers are vehicles, and thus must be registered. UK fudged the regs. Large trailers, O3 and O4 are tested annually by DVSA, plated at first reg, and recorded by DVSA. O1's and 2's, littl 'uns, caravans, boat and car trailers are "registered" by the retailer. Netherlands and most Eu do it properly.

Unusual for us not to follow an EU reg by the book

 

[rafiki_]

Unusual for us not to follow an EU reg by the book

It depends Pete. The Caravan Club lobbied Ministers, and if you look at the stats, while we see the occasional caravan on its roof on the M5, the KSI's (killed or seriously injured) are not bad as a result, so minimum action taken. It is another Daily Mail myth that UK takes all Eu Regs and gold plates them..

 

[rafiki_]

Any progress J? Are you in transit? Sorry Nissan?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Any progress J? Are you in transit? Sorry Nissan?

No, disappointingly I'm still here in the UK. Seller came back late last night and basically said that the only documentation available for the boat was the 'speed license', and that he would send me a copy. Once I've seen that I'll take a view on whether or not that's enough to justify a viewing.

 

[newWave]

The speed license must be either the "vlaggenbrief" or his personal "vaarbewijs" = license to operate a boat that is >15m or exceeds 20km/h.
I guess it will be the latter and that won't help.

You can use that info to negotiate the price down.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

The speed license must be either the "vlaggenbrief" or his personal "vaarbewijs" = license to operate a boat that is >15m or exceeds 20km/h.
I guess it will be the latter and that won't help.

You can use that info to negotiate the price down.

He's sent me a redacted RDW entry for the boat. I don't think this really proves anything. Unfortunately RDW entries for boats cannot be checked online, although they can be for motor vehicles.

At present, that's all I have. No previous sales invoices are available, and in fact at the moment I have nothing that proves the seller is acting with the authority of the owner.

 

[BartW]

He's sent me a redacted RDW entry for the boat. I don't think this really proves anything. Unfortunately RDW entries for boats cannot be checked online, although they can be for motor vehicles.

At present, that's all I have. No previous sales invoices are available, and in fact at the moment I have nothing that proves the seller is acting with the authority of the owner.

don't want to be too negative, but it could be a stolen boat

for re registration you would at least need a CE certifcate from the engine (here in Belgium we need this)
a BOS we need one, but is not a big deal (here in Belgium)

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

don't want to be too negative, but it could be a stolen boat

for re registration you would at least need a CE certifcate from the engine (here in Belgium we need this)
a BOS we need one, but is not a big deal (here in Belgium)

Yep, I see the risk, that's why I'm in the UK and not in Amsterdam. That said, the trailer registration checks out, and is not flagged as stolen (this is public data in NL).

 

[rafiki_]

Time for an update J? ��

 

[longjohnsilver]

Yes I want to see a pic of it on Jimmys davits��

 

[rafiki_]

Yes I want to see a pic of it on Jimmys davits��

Fair point, but I'm still waiting for the video footage of silver service tea being served on the bathing platform ��

 

[longjohnsilver]

Fair point, but I'm still waiting for the video footage of silver service tea being served on the bathing platform ��

Yes, I'd almost forgotten about that. Lots of pics due soon..............

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Time for an update J? ��

Evening all

Well, I must have been standing a bit too close to Petem because so far I have failed to buy a boat . There was what appeared to be a very good candidate on marktplaats.nl, and I had a couple of conversations and several emails with the seller (who was an unregistered broker acting on behalf of the owner). All sounded good on the phone but seller was super-vague about documentation. Eventually I was sent a redacted copy of the boats registration. I then wrote to the seller and said I needed to see an unredacted (is that a word?) version of the doc so that I could independently establish that the seller had proper authority from the owner to sell the boat.

Nothing heard, so then I asked a Dutch friend of mine to call the seller and have a native-language conversation about getting the docs etc; my thinking was that perhaps some subtlety was being lost in translation. In that call, the seller apparently identified the owner as some minor local celebrity, and promised to send the document that I'd requested.

A week went by, and nothing was received, either by me or my Dutch friend. And the advert has now gone from marktplaats. So either it has very suddenly been sold, or... draw your own conclusions.

Apart from that, there is an older Medline 2 listed by Carine Yachts in the UK - but they haven't replied to the email I sent them a couple of weeks ago. There's one on ebay in Spain, but although it was initially listed as a Medline 2, it actually isn't one. [I'm specifically after a Medline 2 because this is the 6m variant].

There's a couple in Corsica but that's not hugely convenient for Brighton (although Myag has offered to tow one back to SoF for me if I want it, and knowing Myag ... he wasn't kidding!).

I've also had some sage advice from some Med-based forumites who have been round the day-boat-for-the-UK loop - telling me not to bother. So right at this moment it's a toss-up between continuing the hunt for an apparently elusive Medline 2 - or treating myself to a nice ZX-10R instead.

 

[petem]

Don't you start!