Wake from larger boats... non issue or safety concern?

BlowingOldBoots said:
Recent experiences are at anchor in the Kyles of Bute and a displacement power boat safely navigates the narrows at speed within the wide, marked channel. On either side of the approaches to the channel are moorings and anchorages and his wake rolls through these some time after he has turned the corner. I assume the skipper was enjoying his day on the water, powering along in fine scenery causing no hassle to anyone. A quick shout below 'wake coming' deals with any cups of tea on the saloon table. I would not think the power boat owner is rude or inconsiderate in these circumstances.
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I would say that he is being ride, inconsiderate and in breach of the law and that he should be reported to the CPA.

How would you feel about a powerboat zooming around crowded mooring for a few hours in the evening - bad manners or something that people in the moored boats should just suck up?
 
the impact of any wake through moorings is hugely influenced by the size of the yacht that is on the receiving end

the Mirror offshore would buck like a bronko

you had better keep sharp when cooking on a mooring - as you would have to turn gas rings off and put pots of hot water on the floor.

Katie L at 22 feet is better

Lily M is 26 feet and that much better but I would still have to go and stand close to the hot pans

I would say to the posters above

a barely perceptible wake when felt from the galley of a 41 footer can be a real challenge in an 18 footer..

unless of course all hot food preparation should be banned on small boats on safety grounds.


D
 
JumbleDuck said:
I would say that he is being ride, inconsiderate and in breach of the law and that he should be reported to the CPA.

How would you feel about a powerboat zooming around crowded mooring for a few hours in the evening - bad manners or something that people in the moored boats should just suck up?
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I ask you, when the Pilot Boat leaves Largs Yacht haven and heads south, is its wash not as dangerous to the moored yachts at Fairly, when the tugs head to/from the Hunterston Coal terminal from North, is their wash not dangerous to the kids on the beach at Largs? I would not report in the context of my post but in the context you give I may be inclined to.

I guess like Loch Lomond the numbers who now enjoy the area (KOB) has increased significantly over the years and these rules address risks from the increased density of users. Personally, I wont be joining the offended to complain when its just a transiting vessel.

Have they blown up Woodfarm rock yet, as clearly that too is offensive to some?
 
dylanwinter said:
.... a barely perceptible wake when felt from the galley of a 41 footer can be a real challenge in an 18 footer.....
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On your 18' this is a risk that you have to manage as it is more likely compared to my 41', but I too have to manage that risk as at 41' I am not immune to rolling either. My point is that risks from wake or waves is an inherent risk that still needs to be managed by the prudent boat user. Even where regulations exist you still need to manage this risk as you could still be subject to rolling about.

It is unfortunate or fortunate, depending on your view point, that today we have a lot of people who have taken to the water. For example, I was talking to a principle of a Clyde sailing school yesterday and they ran full courses up to Christmas week and have 3 boats out next week. With an increase in the density of water users then it is likely that regulation is the only answer where controls are needed in certain areas. I don't like that, but it is a fair method.
 
NormanS said:
You say tomaatos, and we say tomatos.
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awol said:
Interesting. I have always regarded the wake as the line left behind the boat showing its track and the wash as the waves emanating out on the sides. Where are the semanticists?
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I believe that the wake is the wave/s caused by the water being displaced by the hull whereas the wash is the the turbulence caused by the propellor/s.

Tomaatos : Tomatos (shouldn't that have an "e" in it Norman? :rolleyes:) in the same way that genoa sheets can equally well be called genoa lines. :encouragement:

Richard
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
On your 18' this is a risk that you have to manage as it is more likely compared to my 41', but I too have to manage that risk as at 41' I am not immune to rolling either. My point is that risks from wake or waves is an inherent risk that still needs to be managed by the prudent boat user. Even where regulations exist you still need to manage this risk as you could still be subject to rolling about.

It is unfortunate or fortunate, depending on your view point, that today we have a lot of people who have taken to the water. For example, I was talking to a principle of a Clyde sailing school yesterday and they ran full courses up to Christmas week and have 3 boats out next week. With an increase in the density of water users then it is likely that regulation is the only answer where controls are needed in certain areas. I don't like that, but it is a fair method.
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so let me ask you a question

if a wake was big enough to rock your 40 footer as violently as my 18 footer when I have to quickly turn off the gas and put the boiling pan on the cabin sole would you consider that wake to be too big?

D

Talking of wakes through moorings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYMHp5KLq0
 
dylanwinter said:
so let me ask you a question

if a wake was big enough to rock your 40 footer as violently as my 18 footer when I have to quickly turn off the gas and put the boiling pan on the cabin sole would you consider that wake to be too big?

D

Talking of wakes through moorings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYMHp5KLq0
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Yes of course I would and hopefully I could manage the risk similar to you. You can't abdicate responsibility on this matter by expecting everyone to adhere to a certain standard, it is just not going to work. In the hierarchy of (safety) controls, rules and regulations are the second least effective method of mitigating against risk. The second most effective method is engineering out the risk - in your case you could boil the water in pressure cooker style pot with a lockable lid, as an example.

It is easy for everyone to give examples of how wake is dangerous, hence we should be prepared for dangerous wake because most of us have experienced it. As for speeding in amongst moorings that too is dangerous but every day we are prepared to drive at 60 mph separated by about 5 feet from other vehicles going at the same speed in the opposite direction.

How much of a problem is this around the country, in my neck of the woods, since a kid, all my sailing grounds have changed as rules and regulations have come into play, Loch Lomond and the Firth of Clyde being areas where regulation has been tightened to control risk. The RYA campaigns around clubs and in areas for safe and considerate water use, aimed at all levels of the water borne sport?

However, like road driving, we have to take a certain responsibility for our own safety as we cannot rely on others to manage our safety for us. Is it a non issue, in some places it is, is it a safety concern, yes, it always is no matter the place.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
Yes of course I would and hopefully I could manage the risk similar to you. You can't abdicate responsibility on this matter by expecting everyone to adhere to a certain standard, it is just not going to work. In the hierarchy of (safety) controls, rules and regulations are the second least effective method of mitigating against risk. The second most effective method is engineering out the risk - in your case you could boil the water in pressure cooker style pot with a lockable lid, as an example.

It is easy for everyone to give examples of how wake is dangerous, hence we should be prepared for dangerous wake because most of us have experienced it. As for speeding in amongst moorings that too is dangerous but every day we are prepared to drive at 60 mph separated by about 5 feet from other vehicles going at the same speed in the opposite direction.

How much of a problem is this around the country, in my neck of the woods, since a kid, all my sailing grounds have changed as rules and regulations have come into play, Loch Lomond and the Firth of Clyde being areas where regulation has been tightened to control risk. The RYA campaigns around clubs and in areas for safe and considerate water use, aimed at all levels of the water borne sport?

However, like road driving, we have to take a certain responsibility for our own safety as we cannot rely on others to manage our safety for us. Is it a non issue, in some places it is, is it a safety concern, yes, it always is no matter the place.
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so a wake that rocks your 41 foot boat in a dangerous manner is too big

but one that rocks a smaller 18 foot boat in a dangerous manner but affects yours not at all

is fine




what a splendid thread this is!
 
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dylanwinter said:
so a wake that rocks your 41 foot boat in a dangerous manner is too big

but one that rocks a smaller 18 foot boat in a dangerous manner but affects yours not at all

is fine




what a splendid thread this is!
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The way I read BoBs post was that it is not reasonable for someone to produce a wake capable of endangering a 40' plus boat because a wake of that size is easily avoidable, however a smaller wake, one that may endanger a smaller vessel perhaps, is harder to avoid so perhaps persons on smaller boats should be more prepared to deal with it?
 
Meanwhile, back in the real world.........
When I was a wee boy, my pals and I used to play on the beach. The main shipping channel is less than a mile off shore. We used to think it was great when the wash from the passing ships reached the shore, except when it destroyed our sand-castles.
No doubt, in some peoples minds, we could have been drowned, or swept out to sea. Did we blame the ships? No, it was just one of the many hazards of growing up, and looking out for ourselves.
Maybe there's a moral there.
 
RichardS said:
You do it please and report back here with some links .... I really can't be bothered! :encouragement:

What I do know is that I'm very familiar with the term "prop wash" but I've never heard "prop wake". :)

Richard
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Well I certainly did not know the difference.
From my Concise Oxford dictionary:

wake : strip of smooth-looking water left behind moving ship; turbulent air left behind moving aircraft etc.

wash : visible or audible motion of agitated water, esp waves caused by passage of vessel; turbulent air behind moving aircraft.

A quick look at the full Oxford Dictionary gives definitions that are virtually interchangeable. I would conclude that either
a) they have the same meaning; or
b) the egg heads who compiled the dictionary were not boating people.
 
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