Wake from larger boats... non issue or safety concern?

[Blue Sunray]

I am not sure if you are aware how much normal marine traffic already tiptoe around us WAFA's. Most power driven vessels avoid us like the plague due to our propensity of changing direction without warning at any given time, and of course the firm belief amongst us that 'power gives way to sail' - a top trump card that beats every other colreg

:encouragement:

 

[Blue Sunray]

What rare insight you possess! Your greatness of empathy and understanding will be much welcomed...








in The Lounge.

Oh dear, touched a nerve did he?

 

[Blue Sunray]

On a serious note I think it's just part of seamanship. Manners are nice and I do think there are occasions when we could all be a bit more considerate of each others needs, especially in crowded waters, but the bottom line is these things happen, we all know and expect it, and if you get into a situation where it might be particularly dangerous (as it was for me in Poole) then you should be looking at your own seamanship rather than just passing the responsibility elsewhere.

Very well put. Speaking as someone who spent his formative years cruising the south coast with my father in a 19ft then 26ft sailing boat, a lot of time in kayaks and now a motorboat owner, I feel that s lot of these complaints strike me as coming from the same sort of state of mind as that of those cyclists (who are I recognise a minority and no more representative of cyclists as a whole than the posters are of sailing boat owners in toto) who cycle about urban centres at night with no lights undertaking motor vehicles and then scream blue murder when involved in the almost inevitable RTI or near miss.

 

[snooks]

The worst place I've found for wash are places like the entrance to the Hamble/Cowes on a Saturday, and wouldn't feel comfortable until we were at Calshot when leaving Hamble. Portsmouth Entrance can get a bit hairy on occassions (usually springs) with the few doughnut mobo drivers who don't know col regs and play chicken with yachts mostly due to their ignorance and lack of patience.

Even so, in a yacht if you stay seated it will be bumpy for a little bit but not life threatening – unless you have a young child who is unsteady on their feet who are insistant about standing up. :0)

So your options are to drop your sails in plenty of time, or once in the river/harbour. Don't try doing anything but steer in the right direction because it's easy to be rolled off your feet.

 

[Triassic]

I suggest that you try grounding your boat on Pye Sands and see what it feels like.

No thanks, from recollection it's more like concrete than sand.....

Like I said, if you have to share the channel with other boats that are going to generate wash you should firstly be prepared for it, and then capable of dealing with it. If you are neither then I would suggest that is poor seamanship, i.e.: you shouldn't be there.

I'm not suggesting others don't have a responsibility to manage their wash, however we live in the real world and we know that either deliberately or inadvertently they don't always have appropriate consideration, or maybe understanding, of the effect it can have on others.

 

[Resolution]

Oh dear, touched a nerve did he?

Just a bit of pointless tit for tat. I was peeved by Babylon's reference to "cretins with engines", which is the sort of generalisation which does not really add value to the debate. I should have had more self-control before replying. I apologise for lowering the tone.

 

[NickRobinson]

I get cheesed off like others by being bounced about by wash creating passing boats.
Here's a thought or two. (Some) boaters who's activity is having a bit of a thrash don't have much by way of a passage plan. A slow/anchored boat can become a target to aim at in the wide open water.
Obviously the skip would never plan to upset, calculating how close to pass, but as we know, these things are subjective.
I sort of proved this effect anchoring waiting for the lock at Fleetwood. The Sea School lifeboat handling trainees used me as a marker buoy for 2hrs, smiling at each pass...
(see also yotties... 'why do people anchor so close') (see Motor-homers... 'why do others park within inches when there's' infinite space...)

 

[Greenheart]

I'm not the only dinghy owner here...but who else cruises the Solent in an open, unballasted, unengined sailboat for summer fun?

I'm sure it's rotten to get caught by a steep wave if you're in the loo or stirring soup or in an inflatable teaching kiddies to row.

But on most days, I can't find a wave big enough. My favourite boats are those whopping 50ft semi-displacement types which go fast but can't quite climb on the plane. They kick up evil curling, bubbling six-foot horrors which roll towards you like an unbraked, unmanned HGV. The first time, I hadn't a clue what to do. I just told my novice-pal that I'd never actually encountered this before...

...fortunately I think the Osprey had seen it all before, because I pointed her in the direction of the great green advancing piste, and she rode it like a swan. That's how to deal with a big 'un, if the OP is still in doubt. Grin, and hope madam sees that it's all fun.

Now, whenever I can, I get as close as is prudent to ships & big blasting motor-yachts, with the sole purpose of surfing their wakes.

Only applies on days when there's at least some wind. All waves are pestilential when it's calm - the boat becomes a child's rattle.

But generally, I'd be gutted if those growling grunty powerboats thought they were doing me a favour by loping past at jogging pace.

 

[obmij]

Basically caused, as others have said, by big Mobos seeing the end of the Hamble markers in the same light as a National speed limit sign on exiting a village, rather than waiting until through the busy section before opening the throttles. Or conversely waiting until the last minute before chopping the speed.
.

When transiting a heavily trafficked area, predictability is king and very much appreciated in other water users - so surely the seamanlike way to approach a speed restricted area is to continue at your cruising speed (whatever that may be) until such a time as other vessels would expect you to reduce i.e at the markers..

Same goes for open water - If you're travelling at 20 kts and keeping an eye on several other vessels the last thing you want from them is random reductions in speed. You already know that x is will alter for y and that b will overtake d to starboard keeping well clear of z. Allowances have been made by all for sailing vessel J and everything is going smoothly - right until y slams on the brakes to avoid causing undue wash to J potentially spilling their G n T..

 

[johnalison]

No thanks, from recollection it's more like concrete than sand.....

Like I said, if you have to share the channel with other boats that are going to generate wash you should firstly be prepared for it, and then capable of dealing with it. If you are neither then I would suggest that is poor seamanship, i.e.: you shouldn't be there.

I'm not suggesting others don't have a responsibility to manage their wash, however we live in the real world and we know that either deliberately or inadvertently they don't always have appropriate consideration, or maybe understanding, of the effect it can have on others.

It is certainly a great shame that there are so many people wishing to do no more than faff around in sailing boats when it is obvious that the whole point of transport is to do it as fast as possible. Ban sailing, I say. It is old-fashioned, completely unnecessary and merely encourages effeteness.

 

[bitbaltic]

I agree with those who say this is a question of basic seamanship, with the exception of wash from very large vessels, which can be very dangerous. To take the large vessels first- ferries, tankers etc tend to change course very slowly (whatever their speed through the water) so you have plenty of opportunity not to be very near them- seamanship. With respect to small, fast motorboats which may approach you- you can choose to ride their wash either by pointing up (take it on the bow)or bearing away (take it on the quarter or stern). Say you are sailing a beam reach with shallow water one side or the other- and the wash comes on your beam, which is the only direction from which it presents a danger- you can point up or bear away, whichever appropriate. You will only travel a couple of hundred yards while you ride the wash from a MOBO, and if you find you can neither point up nor bear away from wash (at any angle) without running aground or standing into danger, then you were sailing in a confined channel or some other confined situation, and had failed to consider the 'what if's' of that- ie again a question of seamanship.

Playing Devil's advocate, I am not surprised this question arises in the solent. In places like the Bristol Channel, your aspect of sail to waves and sea bed is an ingrained part of your passage plan. Wash has nothing to do with it.

Edited to add: I can see some circumstances, perhaps overtaking a boat to windward when passing close to a windward sandbank over or close to which which a mobo chooses to travel at high speed, where you would have no sea room to avoid a dangerous aspect to a wash, but still that sort of choice comes with implications; I can only imagine doing that when racing. For normal cruising, which I assume was the OP's position, it ought not to happen. Certainly you would be unwise to stand into such circumstances in a channel used by large vessels.

Edited edited to add: I think the OP's concerns come from the need to navigate differently, not so much as handle the boat differently, when transitioning from shallow draft power boats to boats with flappy things and keels, which will sort itself out in time.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Something that is not always fully appreciated is the effect of even a moderate wash when it reaches shallow water. When my grandkids were toddlers we anchored off a beach and rowed ashore in an inflatable. A wash from a boat suddenly got very steep & flipped us over.

When my crew was learning to row, aged 6, in a Sportyak, a prat in a ski boat came belting past at full speed, although the speed limit on Loch ken is 10mpg everywhhere except the water ski area. By the time the wash reached the Sportyak, which was maybe 20 feet from the shore, it was big, breaking and half filled the boat. Not a great situation. Luckily the prat was spoken to and has behaved himself since.

 

[onesea]

Allot of thoughts on here about seamanship

Typically smaller boater is grumbling about large washes coming typically from larger (some ribs at 6 knots do a good job of braking this generalization) vessels creating the washes the wash producing vessels are questioning seamanship of the smaller vessels.

As far as I can see considering the number of these incidents that happen and the lack of actually serious accident says the small boats are doing a good job of there seamanship...

I guess if a few nervous beginners and children get scared off the sport, are they just are not manly enough to be afloat?

 

[thecommander]

So you obviously don't slow down / reduce wash / change course for rowers, kayakers, small boats and small tenders in the water.

I mean it's the bloody rowers and kayakers fault for being in the water and if they get hit by my wash so be it. The occupants of the small craft should question their 'seamanship' or just 'man up' and take it!

Never heard anything like it.

 

[obmij]

I guess if a few nervous beginners and children get scared off the sport, are they just are not manly enough to be afloat?

Manley is nothing to do with it. If Children and nervous beginners are scared off the sport because of wash - the responsibility lies entirely with skip for not adequately briefing on what is a very likely event or taking steps to mitigate against it.

Going boating and complaining about wash is like holidaying in the Lake District and whining about the rain. It's gonna rain, so wear a raincoat!

Everything produces wash, Your own boat produces wash. A duck produces wash, the duck probably does not appreciate the effect its wash has on other river inhabitants and is considered an inconsiderate bastard by frogs and newts. But what can it do? It has mass and the water it displaces when in a state of momentum is wash!

 

[obmij]

So you obviously don't slow down / reduce wash / change course for rowers, kayakers, small boats and small tenders in the water.

I mean it's the bloody rowers and kayakers fault for being in the water and if they get hit by my wash so be it. The occupants of the small craft should question their 'seamanship' or just 'man up' and take it!

Never heard anything like it.

If a kayaker ventures into an area where they are likely to experience wash then they should be prepared deal with it (actually, many seek out overfalls, which is like wash on steroids)

This is a non issue for 95% of water users, who like being on the water.

 

[onesea]

Manley is nothing to do with it. If Children and nervous beginners are scared off the sport because of wash - the responsibility lies entirely with skip for not adequately briefing on what is a very likely event or taking steps to mitigate against it.

Have you ever tried giving that briefing to a nervous crew/ child?
--- <Start Briefing>
Even on the calmest day at any time we could get waves up to about 3' (just short of 1m which would normally require a F8 gale in the areas we sail in) and any of the following could occur:
You could be soaked,
The dinghy 1/2 swamped (on rare occasions capsized)).
The boat will roll till the decks go in the water both sides.
The pitching will be so violent the boat will shake and stop in its tracks.
Spray or even small waves will roll into this nice safe looking cockpit.
If your down below you could be throw around like popcorn on a hot stove,

Do not worry considering the number of incidents very few people die or are even seriously hurt by them. Take confidence in this it shows our boat and crew are capable in handling weathers and waves we would not choose to go sailing in. They tell us its all part of the fun.

To avoid this we shall:
Maintain constant visual for other boats and shout "Wakeoooo" on the sign of any wave,
If at the mast or on deck cling on (it feels like for life or death but its not normally),
Alter course away from our track for minutes at a time to allow these waves to pass,
Initially we will not sail near Cowes, Hamble, Beaulie, Yarmouth, Newtown, Portsmouth, Chitchester, Poole as this greatly increases the possibility of these waves.

These waves do have some warning:
Large vessels travelling fairly fast and normally fairly close (although not always),
The vessels vary in colour in color white and navy blue are common,
They maybe be going slow initially but may speed up and change course,
The occupiers will often wave at you just like other vessels and expect a wave back, (at this point I normally shake my head and point at the wash),

Do not worry these boats pass often enough you will soon learn which ones are more likely to give a wash. The general conclusion is these vessels do this because quite scarily they do not know the effect they have or think its the correct thing to do.

End Briefing. Have I missed anything?

To the OP as our man states you should give a similar briefing (well i generally discuss ideas and possibilities, its a bit softer) to the above, luckily the extremes are few and far between. Your average trip results in some gentle motion maybe a little bit more the once or twice a sail. Hopefully you will get a few gentle rolls building confidence before getting clouted by a real idiot, sorry large wash.

By then your misses if enjoying will show she is a true sailor by the language she uses after them!

It seems serious incidents of dinghy's getting flipped people getting knocked overboard etc are VERY low considering, although I am sure there are more than a few that decided sailing was not for them as a consequence.

 

[dylanwinter]

If a kayaker ventures into an area where they are likely to experience wash then they should be prepared deal with it (actually, many seek out overfalls, which is like wash on steroids)

This is a non issue for 95% of water users, who like being on the water.

so your attitude is...

I am allowed to make big washes

so anywhere I am allowed to make big washes then all water users other, than those with big boats or people experienced enough to cope with my wash need to get off the wateer

excellent

I do love this place

 

[obmij]

Onesea

My briefing on the subject is normally..briefer.

I do brief new crew and kids (I'm generally out with my 4 year old) but I am not so melodramatic. Wash is just a part of being out on the water and not something to have a cow about.

Dylan

My boat makes wash, as does yours (it's how we make out our excessive leeway in our elderly, light displacement bilge keelers!)

I just don't expect everyone to have made the same choices as me. Someone in a topper will make less, someone in a Princess 50 will make more. So what?

 

[Blue Sunray]

If a kayaker ventures into an area where they are likely to experience wash then they should be prepared deal with it (actually, many seek out overfalls, which is like wash on steroids)

This is a non issue for 95% of water users, who like being on the water.

:encouragement: