vYacht router - any good ?

[Boo2]

Was thinking of buying a vYacht wifi router from this site but heard a few things about it that makes me think it's not quite there yet. Anyone got one with a recent version of the software and care to comment ? I'd want it to connect Seatalk ans SeatalkNG to a PC running OpenCPN.

Also, I downloaded the source code from the Github page linked on the vendor's website but couldn't find any actual code there. Anyone here have better luck ?

Thanks,

Boo2

 

[alteredoutlook]

interesting........!

I'm hoping to do the same with a Raspberry Pi for a fraction of the cost. I got the Pi just before xmas and am on the bottom of the learning curve with it. Its definitely not as straight forward as buying your solution!

 

[GHA]

interesting........!

I'm hoping to do the same with a Raspberry Pi for a fraction of the cost. I got the Pi just before xmas and am on the bottom of the learning curve with it. Its definitely not as straight forward as buying your solution!

Are you running Openplotter on the Pi?

http://sailoog.com/

V0.9 is still in its early days and is a little more complex but V0.8 should work straight out of the box, very little set up required and it's easy to do. Don't even need a monitor.

Seatalk / NG isn't implemented yet, maybe one day.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Was thinking of buying a vYacht wifi router from this site but heard a few things about it that makes me think it's not quite there yet. Anyone got one with a recent version of the software and care to comment ? I'd want it to connect Seatalk ans SeatalkNG to a PC running OpenCPN.

Also, I downloaded the source code from the Github page linked on the vendor's website but couldn't find any actual code there. Anyone here have better luck ?

Thanks,

Boo2

Not looked into the code, but i'm using one with the .20 firmware. I'm feeding it N2K depth and GPS data, along with NMEA0183 AIS. It converts everything to NMEA 0183 and transmits it by wifi. It works OK as it is, but does have some flaws and limitations.

Some messages are not catered for, water temp for instance. N2K AIS does not work either, AIS has to be input as 0183. Support is patchy as it is a part time project.

 

[alteredoutlook]

Are you running Openplotter on the Pi?

http://sailoog.com/

V0.9 is still in its early days and is a little more complex but V0.8 should work straight out of the box, very little set up required and it's easy to do. Don't even need a monitor.

Seatalk / NG isn't implemented yet, maybe one day.

Open Plotter. Wow!!!

I had picked up some of the many articles on converting the pi into a nmea multiplexer and wifi device e.g. stripydogs postings and was just about to embark on the process of configuring the pi accordingly. I had heard of the open plotter but thought it was just a replacement for OpenCpn etc - I just didn't realise it creates a whole system (of which OpenCpn is but a part). If it all works well, it may have saved me a whole bunch of effort (e.g. defining 'fixed/static' usb ports for the multiplexer).
So many thanks for the nudge in the right direction! (however, I don't think my wife will thank you when she sees all the other sensors/interfaces/gizmos that I might be buying now......!!)

 

[lpdsn]

Some messages are not catered for, water temp for instance. N2K AIS does not work either, AIS has to be input as 0183. Support is patchy as it is a part time project.

That's interesting, as my vYacht WiFi converts N2K AIS messages and transmits them as NMEA0183 VDM sentences over WiFi. That's maybe what you were saying so apologies if I misunderstood.

The weakness I've found with mine is that it gets flooded with N2K messages and can't keep up. I've come to the same conclusion re the support.

For the OP, I'm now feeding info into OpenCPN (Windows 10 tablet) over USB from a ShipModul Miniplex. It will accept NMEA0183, N2K (Seatalk ng) and Seatalk, although I just use 0183 & STng. I keep the vYacht connected in case I want to wander around with the tablet, or for crews' own tablets/smartphones. It is more than a gimmick, just about.

If I was to go back and do it again, I'd get the version of the ShipModul MiniPlex with everything on N2K/USB/WiFi.

 

[PaulRainbow]

That's interesting, as my vYacht WiFi converts N2K AIS messages and transmits them as NMEA0183 VDM sentences over WiFi. That's maybe what you were saying so apologies if I misunderstood.

No, i had all manner of problems getting it to translate N2K AIS. To start with it put every single target in the same spot, about 400 miles away ! Bernd did 4 or 5 firmware updates to fix it. At one point i had something like targets going backwards, doing 30 kts at anchor.

He got it almost fixed, but it was not showing all of the targets. My AIS will send N2K or 0183, switching between the two always resulted in there being many more targets on 0183 as there was on N2K. This may be the same flooding problem that you encountered, so perhaps yours will work better if you could change AIS to 0183 ? When i mentioned to Bernd that it was working OK on 0183 he stopped trying to solve the conversion problem.

EDIT : Just checked and i'm seeing 42 targets using 0183 but only 22 if i use N2K !! Considering this is mostly container ships and pilot vessel in and out of Felixstowe and Harwich, it's not good.

 

[lpdsn]

He got it almost fixed, but it was not showing all of the targets. My AIS will send N2K or 0183, switching between the two always resulted in there being many more targets on 0183 as there was on N2K. This may be the same flooding problem that you encountered, so perhaps yours will work better if you could change AIS to 0183 ? When i mentioned to Bernd that it was working OK on 0183 he stopped trying to solve the conversion problem.

Mine worked straight out of the box - Jan 2015 IIRC. My AIS messages originate on 0183, are converted to N2K then sent to the vYacht WiFi. My vYacht doesn't have an 0183 input. Not all AIS senetence types are converted into N2K to start with but vYacht does handle those that are ok (I was using an Actisense NGW1 for the 0183 -> N2K conversion but am currently experimenting with using the latest ShipModul firmware update instead).

The NMEA debug window in OpenCPN is my main clue when the vYacht gets overloaded. What I get is typically 6 or 7 or more seconds of ROT, followed by 6-7 seconds or more of HDG, then a burst of RSA (all from the autopilot), then a burst of various GPS sentences in catch-up mode, then a smaller burst of VDM sentences, etc.etc. It's not just AIS sentences that go astray, OpenCPN frequently loses the boat's position when it hasn't had the GPS sentences for a while. I can tell from the time in the ZDA sentences that they've sat in a queue for a while before being converted in a burst.

As I said in the earlier post, I've switched to connecting my tablet to the ShipModul box and it is much better. I just wish I'd gone for the WiFi option on it. For AIS sentences I get, as far as I can tell, all types: NMEA 0183 over USB. I also have more options for pruning the high volumes of autopilot related messages.

My suspicion is that the N2K conversions are just too much of a load for the vYacht WiFi. I suspect the same problem may not occur with the NMEA0183 versions as there's much less for the vYacht box to do. One thing I like about the ShipModul box is that it comes with a performance monitor, so I can check that it has the performance headroom to do what I'm asking of it.

 

[laika]

2 interviews, one with the creator of vyacht and one with the lead developer of openplotter here

 

[Yngmar]

I've just fitted one on a friendly boat. He's got a mix of NMEA0183 and Simnet (N2k with ridiculously expensive proprietary plugs). Spent more in Simrad plugs than the vYacht box cost. vYacht box worked fine reading both '83 and 2k and serving it over Wifi, but failed to enable writing to 2k for the purpose of sending waypoints to the Simnet plotter (it says it does, but never stores the settings). Support request from December has so far remained unanswered, and I haven't poked around the code yet.

Internally it uses a hacked up version of gpsd for all the NMEA jobs, but since the firmware is based on OpenWRT that could be changed if you don't mind a bit of fiddling (but then if you're going to start fiddling, you can have this for even less, depending on your needs).

Overall, the hardware is pretty good, firmware is so-so, support so far disappointing - and the whole reason I'd recommended this semi-commercial solution to the owners was due to the existence of some support and documentation, rather than fitting some homecooked solution that he'd have to ring me every time about

Other things worth mentioning:

* The Simrad chartplotter crashes when going into the N2k menu while the vYacht box is on the N2k network. Obviously a stupid Simrad bug (most chartplotter firmware is beyond horrible if you start digging into it - Furuno also guilty of this).

* Navionics on iPad doesn't actually have the ability to connect to NMEA over Wifi. WTF? Ended up buying iNavX, which is great and does this, but had to re-buy his Navionics charts because the ones from the iPad app cannot be re-used anywhere else, including in another app on the same iPad. Very stupid. Suggested bitching to Navionics about this and the lack of NMEA connectivity.

* App stores are mostly full of crappy NMEA apps costing too much money (try finding a NMEA instrument display app that doesn't suck - including expensive ones). A PC (in tablet or laptop form) running OpenCPN beats these any day.

* The Cetrek autopilot did not output the RSA sentence (Rudder position), despite the documentation saying so. This was a bit disappointing, as the owner had really wanted this on the iPad for a variety of reasons. Lesson learnt: Check that your devices really output the information you want before you buy stuff rather than trusting the docs :disgust: Cetrek has long gone out of business and so there's no fix for this (and the firmware is on an EPROM, heh).

 

[PaulRainbow]

Bit of a rush, so a couple of quick comments for now. Sure i read that the vYacht does not output N2K, will check my docs.

Also, ref tablet 'apps, i tried iSailor on my Android tablet and first impressions, not bad. Up to date vector charts and it supports AIS over wifi from the vYacht. Can be downloaded and tried with a small area chart for free, costs just over £20 for the pro version with full chart coverage. Will report more when i get time to test it more.

 

[lpdsn]

Sure i read that the vYacht does not output N2K, will check my docs.

That's exactly my understanding. The right version will take in N2K and will convert it to 0183 and transmit over WiFi, but it won't transmit N2K either over WiFi or the bus.

I've just checked the website and it doesn't look as though this has changed since I bought mine. https://www.vyacht.net/specification.html

I was told that they hadn't used the N2K spec when incorporating N2K support, so I guess it would be a lot more work for the router to transmit correctly on the N2K bus rather than simply listen in.

 

[Yngmar]

The one I had had a setup menu where N2k writes could be enabled, along with configuring the device ids for the talker. Which would really be '83 converted to N2k and then written to the N2k bus. Unfortunately the option doesn't seem to work. Might not be fully implemented then?

 

[lpdsn]

The one I had had a setup menu where N2k writes could be enabled, along with configuring the device ids for the talker. Which would really be '83 converted to N2k and then written to the N2k bus. Unfortunately the option doesn't seem to work. Might not be fully implemented then?

From what I've worked out of NMEA2000, moving from where vYacht were when I bought one to actually transmitting is a big step. It's necessary to 'register' on the bus at start up, claim an address ID etc. Then the messages would have to be correctly formed. There are, I think, three types of N2K message and those that don't fit conveniently into just one frame (if that's the right word) require a bit of back and forth. For a start he'd need the N2K spec and to be able to make any formal claims would have to go through an N2K test cycle.

If he'd done all that, or was even close to it, I'd expect it to be blazoned all over his website. I couldn't find it.

The impression I gained was that he'd simply worked out how to get useful information out of various N2K messages - I think there may have some shareware software that he made use of. That's no complaint about his N2K support, as far as I'm aware the N2K -> 0183 all functions pretty well, just think it's a big next step to transmit.

I suspect you're right: not fully implemented.

 

[Yngmar]

From what I've worked out of NMEA2000, moving from where vYacht were when I bought one to actually transmitting is a big step. It's necessary to 'register' on the bus at start up, claim an address ID etc. Then the messages would have to be correctly formed. There are, I think, three types of N2K message and those that don't fit conveniently into just one frame (if that's the right word) require a bit of back and forth. For a start he'd need the N2K spec and to be able to make any formal claims would have to go through an N2K test cycle.

If he'd done all that, or was even close to it, I'd expect it to be blazoned all over his website. I couldn't find it.

The impression I gained was that he'd simply worked out how to get useful information out of various N2K messages - I think there may have some shareware software that he made use of. That's no complaint about his N2K support, as far as I'm aware the N2K -> 0183 all functions pretty well, just think it's a big next step to transmit.

I suspect you're right: not fully implemented.

All of this is available. Most of N2k is just CAN bus, with one additional packet type "fast packet". The canboat project has a decoder and encoder for the protocol and PGNs (which the vYacht box must already know, because it translates them into NMEA0183), so all the reverse engineering has been done. The canboat peeps did not buy the spec or join the NMEA cartel. So it's not too far fetched to hope for this to be working - and clearly someone thought so, as they added an interface for it to the vYacht box

 

[PaulRainbow]

The one I had had a setup menu where N2k writes could be enabled, along with configuring the device ids for the talker. Which would really be '83 converted to N2k and then written to the N2k bus. Unfortunately the option doesn't seem to work. Might not be fully implemented then?

Mine has that page, but as you say, it's does not work.

 

[PaulRainbow]

That's no complaint about his N2K support, as far as I'm aware the N2K -> 0183 all functions pretty well, just think it's a big next step to transmit.

Mine definitely does not convert N2K AIS to 0183 correctly. It also does not handle water temp.

 

[lpdsn]

Mine definitely does not convert N2K AIS to 0183 correctly. It also does not handle water temp.

Out of curiosity, which AIS PGNs cause problems? Because mine originate as 0183, only some are converted to N2K before reaching the vYacht router.

The Actisense outputs the following 129038, 129039, 129040, 129793, 129794, 129798, 129809, 129810. The vYacht router seems to handle them all (although I'm trying to recall base stations (129793) showing up on the tablet over WiFi and can't, so I'm not certain about that one). At the moment I'm trialling the ShipModul AIS conversions which gives me 129802 (safety broadcast messages) but until someone conveniently falls off a nearby boat armed only with an AIS SART I'll not be able to test if the vYacht handles that one.

I don't have water temperature at the moment so can't comment there.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Out of curiosity, which AIS PGNs cause problems? Because mine originate as 0183, only some are converted to N2K before reaching the vYacht router.

I don't think it has a problem with any particular PGN's, although i haven't done any in depth testing. It just does not show all AIS targets when i switch the Garmin VHF300 to N2K. I just updated to the .21 firmware and it is the same. Older firmware, from 1.3.12 to 1.3.19 had all manner of problems with the conversions. .12 placed all target in a heap about 400 miles away !

Out of interest, why are you converting to N2K before sending to the vYacht ? Sending it 0183 would reduce it's workload.

 

[RobbieW]

... for the purpose of sending waypoints to the Simnet plotter (it says it does, but never stores the settings). Support request from December has so far remained unanswered, and I haven't poked around the code yet...

Fred drift: I have an NSS8; I'd got as far as discovering that the OS is an 'x variant but hadnt found a way into it. One thing I'd like to do is transfer routes created in OCPN to the NSS without having to use 'sneakernet' - putting the .gpx file on the uSD card then importing it into the NSS. If you've found a way through logins that work (or any other way), I'd be interested - thanks (perhaps I should add that the NSS appears on my network; I use the Navico radar plugin with OCPN. I'll also say that adding a connection in OCPN to port 10110 on the NSS (the gofree service?) realises a stream of 0183 sentences).

More on track, a few years ago in my search for a router that could combine several functions I ran kplex on a Tomato based router to get 0183 from 3 sources onto wifi. Where that ran into trouble was initiating 3G/4G dongles to get internet connections, during that initiation sequence the serial/usb converter drivers got hosed and the whole needed rebooting to recover - as the 3G service dropped out frequently this was a not uncommon experience. Routers with more modern kernels and dongles may be more resilient, I've not got around to trying again (still using Tomato for various reasons). What I did was separate function so the internet connection ran on its own router with the boat wifi being served by the Tomato device running kplex getting internet through a WAN connection. The point of this rambling is simply to warn that mixing USB source device types may be troublesome in router 'x implementations!