VP self docking system: REALLY?

MapisM

MapisM

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Am I alone in finding the following description, posted with their own video, laughable to say the least?
"Thanks to Volvo Penta's self-docking yacht technology, the yacht docks with ease in a very tight space"
For those who can't be bothered to see all the (actually very boring) full video, I'm attaching a still frame below.
If that's a "very tight" berth, I wonder where they are used to park their boats in Sweden... :rolleyes::D
mNlxrKhZ_o.jpg
 
MapisM said:
Am I alone in finding the following description, posted with their own video, laughable to say the least?
"Thanks to Volvo Penta's self-docking yacht technology, the yacht docks with ease in a very tight space"
For those who can't be bothered to see all the (actually very boring) full video, I'm attaching a still frame below.
If that's a "very tight" berth, I wonder where they are used to park their boats in Sweden... :rolleyes::D
mNlxrKhZ_o.jpg
Click to expand...

It is plenty of space in Med terms.
Obviously a well rehearsed and staged manoeuvre from the non-fendered berthing vessel to promote confidence for novice operators.
As an observation, when a situation literally does go sideways in a larger gapped berth, a panicking novice could possibly do more damage to the neighbouring boats from anchor gear, bow sprit and sharp stern quarters, compared to a narrow berth restricting impact to something more parallel.
 
And has to have transponders on the dock, so at best works with your home dock that you are familiar with.

Seems to be about as advanced as a a robot vavuum driving itself back to its charging station.

Whilst we can all get nervious at times when docking (espically for those of us without thusters and jopysticks) if you are not cnnforable docking a boat that already has the benifit of IPS (obviously a pre requiste for this system), then perhaps you need a bit more practise / tuition rather than relying on such a system to do it for you and hoping it doesnt fail becuase you cant do it yourself.

Ants
 
All you need to do now is to combine this with your totally automated navigation system and Hey Presto.....
Never ever leave your sofa again.
Virtual boating !
Interface with your onboard video sytem and you experience all the joys and excitement of boating without actually going onboard .
Experience the challenge of battling through F7 (at least) conditions , locating and entering strange unfamiliar ports and all from the comfort of your Ipad.
Perform perfect and impressive docking manoeuvres on stress free arrival
Whats not to like ? :)
 
Anthony said:
if you are not cnnforable docking a boat that already has the benifit of IPS (obviously a pre requiste for this system), then perhaps you need a bit more practise / tuition rather than relying on such a system to do it for you and hoping it doesnt fail becuase you cant do it yourself.

Ants
Click to expand...

I can see your point (and indeed I agree with it), but on the other hand, I can park a car without power steering and without parking sensors perfectly well, but I find it much easier with them, so maybe they're a good thing?
 
it's a bit of a nonsense that the skipper has to be there in case he needs to intervene. If the system works then surely he will gave become de-skilled and less able to park the thing himself? Anyhow, such incidents can only get the adrenaline pumping even more and lead to the post docking beer to taste even sweeter!
 
Nothing more than a blinged up car self parking system using fixed transponders (very old hat) and while it may be fine for cars and lorries on stable and fixed surfaces such as roads, parking bays, and loading docks, there is one inherent problem and that boats sit in water, you know, the same stuff which is constantly moving with ebb and flow, and boats either side which are constantly moving.

If it was a stand alone system with 360 degree monitoring it could account for tidal flows, moving craft either side, and be used anywhere, and would be worth looking at for inexperienced boaters.
 
Dear boating friends,

we are a group of 5 people from the University of Lausanne (Switzerland) starting an entrepreneurship project for a self docking system for boats and yachts.

In order to assess the market potential, we prepared a survey. It would be very kind of you, if you may invest 3 minutes of your time for helping us.

If you know other potential interessants, please let us know, or directly forward the survey link.

Of course all answers are anonymous and treated confidential.

Best Regards, and thanks a lot !

www.surveymonkey.com/r/selfdocking
 
Answered but I am not sure your survey will give much insite.

I don’t doubt this is possible but the maket will I suspect be limited as really only ips boats are likely to present the required flexibility to interact with a system.

It’s an interesting concept. To be marketable it will require no dock side equipment.

Practical example. You are docking med style against a dock with no other boats. How does it know where to park

I have a Range Rover. Use auto park on a double width space and see what happens. It parks in the middle of both of them !

Wind. Water. Fenders showing as obstacles as you back in. Ned moorings with a high dock and air underneath so no obvious obstacle etc. It will be a huge challenge.

Focus on mooring assistance and you have a more likely commercial outcome in my view.
 
Aside from seconding what jrudge said, I'll throw in a psychological element, if you don't mind:
No boater has ever been interested in a self docking system, and nobody ever will. That's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

The problem that does exist is that for many boaters, the "traditional" way of maneuvering a boat is not easy enough for their capacity/experience.
And THAT is a need which was very effectively addressed by pods+joystick, becoming one of the most relevant KSF of such equipment (if not THE most relevant).
But that's a completely different philosophy, because it's a system which allows the helmsman to still handle the boat himself, pretending to come through as Kurt Russell in the famous Captain Ron's docking maneuver.

Out of several boaters I met who have no problem to say that docking is for them the most scary part of the boating experience, none would install a self docking system if it were available FoC, because that's akin to admitting that they are unable to handle their boats.
Otoh, give them an effective and easy joystick system, and they are prepared to spend ridiculous amounts of money for that.
Volvo Penta (and others who followed) understood that perfectly, and we know by now that they were right.
Adding the self-docking thing is just a useless show-off, and I'm looking fwd to re-check this thread in 2020 (when VP is declaring that the system is "targeted for launch"), because I have a funny feeling that we will have a laugh about it... :D

PS: I'm well aware of what Jobs said about people "not knowing what they want until you show it to them" (or something along those lines), and I can see why he was right, in his field.
But in this case, my view is that boaters, rather than not wanting a self docking system because it doesn't exist, they do not want it even if it WOULD exist. Time will tell... :rolleyes:
 
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Reminds me of BMWs ( or was it Merc ?) driverless car , no steering wheel you just sit there and it’s does it all for you - when it works .
That’s the biggie “ when it works “

I enjoy driving cars and not surprisingly helming and docking boats too .
Infact the busier and trickier the better .
Did this kissed gently pararel in front of a gathering crowd btw .

View attachment 72698

Anyhow parking it was the easy bit wind on .
Getting off parallel using combo of bow thruster and R on the stb engine.far enough away to twin stick a turn was the most gratifying part .
So is there a gadget to move away from a berth ?
I mean once somebody with a auto dock presses that button ,docks etc - now what - have they got the skill to get it off ?
 
MapisM said:
Aside from seconding what jrudge said, I'll throw in a psychological element, if you don't mind:
No boater has ever been interested in a self docking system, and nobody ever will. That's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

The problem that does exist is that for many boaters, the "traditional" way of maneuvering a boat is not easy enough for their capacity/experience.
And THAT is a need which was very effectively addressed by pods+joystick, becoming one of the most relevant KSF of such equipment (if not THE most relevant).
Click to expand...

Totally agree - fully automatic docking doesn't solve a problem that anyone has on a leisure vessel, what people want is easier ways for them to apply control.

The big one, I think, would be a system that let you command absolute movement relative to the ground. I don't know if this is already available; might well be as it's essentially leisure-grade Dynamic Positioning as used on seabed construction vessels and suchlike. So if you let go of the controller, the boat would sit completely stationary relative to other moored boats, pontoons, etc, regardless of any wind and current. Nudge the controller forwards slightly, and the boat moves say 6" forward. Push it sideways and the boat slides sideways until it lines up with the berth and you let go again. Push backwards and the boat slides backwards into the berth.

The mechanics and much of the control are already there, but the systems I've seen are open-loop, it's up to you to apply (say) enough sideways power to counteract the wind. I don't know whether GPS can be done accurately enough to have inch-perfect control of absolute position, but something like a doppler sonar to track the bottom ought to help a great deal.

Pete
 
Differential gps can be very accurate

In essence it is a local GPS receiver that knows where it is.

It then compares that to the gps position and transmits error correction

That said there is accurate and accurate where med berthing could easily give you only a few inches either side !
 
Portofino said:
Anyhow parking it was the easy bit wind on.
Getting off parallel using combo of bow thruster and R on the stb engine.far enough away to twin stick a turn was the most gratifying part.
So is there a gadget to move away from a berth ?
I mean once somebody with a auto dock presses that button ,docks etc - now what - have they got the skill to get it off ?
Click to expand...
Well, if the vessel is self-sufficient in moving sideways (regardless of whether this is allowed by pods, thrusters, or whatever), theoretically a computerized system could move her away also from an alongside mooring automatically. But what for?
Let's leave aside the fact that handling the thrusters + engines combo manually is perfectly feasible with a bit of practice. As we all know, it ain't exactly an intuitive maneuver, either.
But once such combo can be handled by a black box, based on the inputs coming from a single joystick (which is extremely intuitive, and it's a technology already available), what else could a helmsman ask for... :confused:

Otoh, if the boat is NOT self sufficient in moving sideways with her own machinery, and you must resort to tricks with mooring lines, both when arriving to and leaving from a berth, then it's hard to imagine how any computerized system will ever be able to replace sheer skills...
 
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